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Can you Criticize a Priest?


Piccoli Fiori JMJ

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Piccoli Fiori JMJ

[font="ARIAL"][size=2][b][color="#660000"]The following are Our Lord's revelations to Mutter Vogel.[/color][/b] [/size][/font]

[font="ARIAL"][size=2][img]http://www.cukierski.net/goldcr1.gif[/img][b]"One should NEVER attack a priest, even when he's in error, rather one should pray and do penance that I'll grant him My grace again. He alone fully represents Me, even when he doesn't live after My example!" (page 29, Mutter Vogel's Worldwide Love, St. Grignion Publishing House, Altoting, South Germany (29.6, 1929) [/b] [/size][/font]

[font="ARIAL"][size=2][img]http://www.cukierski.net/goldcr1.gif[/img][b]"When a Priest falls we should extend him a helping hand through prayer and not through attacks! I, Myself will be his judge, no one but I! Whoever voices judgment over a priest has voiced it over me; child, never let a Priest be attacked, take up his defense." (Feast of Christ the King, 1937) [/b] [/size][/font]

[font="ARIAL"][size=2][img]http://www.cukierski.net/goldcr1.gif[/img][b]"Child, Never judge your confessor, rather pray much for him and offer every Thursday, through the hands of My Blessed Mother, Holy Communion (for him) (18.6, 1939)[/b] [/size][/font]

[font="ARIAL"][size=2][img]http://www.cukierski.net/goldcr1.gif[/img][b]"Never accept an out-of-the-way word about a Priest, and speak no unkind word (about them) even if it were true! Every Priest is My Vicar and My heart will be sickened and insulted because of it! If you hear a judgment (against a Priest) pray a Hail Mary." (28.6, 1939)[/b] [/size][/font]

[font="ARIAL"][size=2][b][color="#660000"][i]If you see a Priest who celebrates the Holy Mass unworthily, tell it to God! He stands by Him on the altar![/i][/color][/b][/size][/font]


[font="ARIAL"][size=2][b][color="#660000"][/color][/b][/size][/font]

[font="ARIAL"][size=2][b][color="#660000"][i]http://www.cukierski.net/priest.html
[/i][/color][/b] [/size][/font]

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littleflower+JMJ

I was about to direct you to the prayerbook that mentions something like this...although not quite. as the same :thumbsup:

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Who is "Mutter Vogel" and and has he/she submitted these "revelations" to the Church?

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Piccoli Fiori JMJ

[quote name='Era Might' post='1028639' date='Jul 21 2006, 10:48 PM'] Who is "Mutter Vogel" and and has he/she submitted these "revelations" to the Church? [/quote]To be honest, I am not sure... I thought it was some good things to point out...

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I'm kind of put off by the messages, honestly. Maybe because we live in the times that we do, with the scandal and all. I'm all for prayer and respect for Priests, but keeping silent about their sins brought harm to a lot of children.

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Here, is 'attack' defined as 'physically beat up' or telling him, 'Fr., you dont know your collar from a hole in the ground."

Biblical note:
If St. Paul can chew out St. Peter, the first pope, then we can get on the case of priests, perhaps even bishops, in some level.

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brendan1104

[quote name='Era Might' post='1028639' date='Jul 21 2006, 11:48 PM']
Who is "Mutter Vogel" and and has he/she submitted these "revelations" to the Church?[/quote]

Mutter Vogel was a German woman (not sure if she was definitely a nun) who lived in the early part of the 20th century. Her "revelations" have never been approved- in fact, I think she was condemned.

These quotes are from the popular Pieta prayer booklet- where unbelievable and heretical promises attached to looking at or carrying an image or prayer are found. The 'promises' attached to the "St. Bridget prayers"- the text itself of the prayer aren't bad- have been explicity condemned by the Vatican, and the other "promises" in the booklet are negated by the Church's dogmatic beliefs.

Much of what is contained in the Pieta prayer book is good: approved prayers, promotion of the Rosary and Scapular, etc. But some of it is heretical, superstitious, and wrong. This is exactly what the devil wants. The devil will say 10 things- 9 of which are very good, but the 10th will be bad and is intended to lead to the damnation and loss/harm of souls.

The Church's tradition teaches that Catholics can, and sometimes must rebuke or criticize the clergy- whether they are a priest, bishop, or pope if they teach heresy, disregard the rubrics and texts of the Mass and other Sacraments, are known to be sinning, etc. This is true today, more than ever- with the sex abuse scandal, rampant liturgical abuse, and false teaching and preaching.

Criticizing priests occured in the Church's earliest days, as can be read in Scripture. St. Paul rebuked St. Peter who was the pope and head of the Apostles publicly:

[quote]But when Cephas (St. Peter) was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.[/quote] Galatians, Ch. 2 Vs. 11.

Mutter Vogel's "revelations" and "teachings" should be given no credence, no attention, and condemned.

Edited by brendan1104
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[quote name='brendan1104' post='1028856' date='Jul 22 2006, 01:46 PM']
Mutter Vogel was a German woman (not sure if she was definitely a nun) who lived in the early part of the 20th century. Her "revelations" have never been approved- in fact, I think she was condemned.

These quotes are from the popular Pieta prayer booklet- where unbelievable and heretical promises attached to looking at or carrying an image or prayer are found. The 'promises' attached to the "St. Bridget prayers"- the text itself of the prayer aren't bad- have been explicity condemned by the Vatican, and the other "promises" in the booklet are negated by the Church's dogmatic beliefs.

Much of what is contained in the Pieta prayer book is good: approved prayers, promotion of the Rosary and Scapular, etc. But some of it is heretical, superstitious, and wrong. This is exactly what the devil wants. The devil will say 10 things- 9 of which are very good, but the 10th will be bad and is intended to lead to the damnation and loss/harm of souls.

The Church's tradition teaches that Catholics can, and sometimes must rebuke or criticize the clergy- whether they are a priest, bishop, or pope if they teach heresy, disregard the rubrics and texts of the Mass and other Sacraments, are known to be sinning, etc. This is true today, more than ever- with the sex abuse scandal, rampant liturgical abuse, and false teaching and preaching.

Criticizing priests occured in the Church's earliest days, as can be read in Scripture. St. Paul rebuked St. Peter who was the pope and head of the Apostles publicly:

Galatians, Ch. 2 Vs. 11.

Mutter Vogel's "revelations" and "teachings" should be given no credence, no attention, and condemned.
[/quote]

careful you know people dont believe those things anymore, especially on here. lol

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[quote name='Akalyte' post='1028861' date='Jul 22 2006, 03:05 PM']
careful you know people dont believe those things anymore, especially on here. lol
[/quote]
On here? :idontknow:

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brendan1104

[quote name='Akalyte' post='1028861' date='Jul 22 2006, 03:05 PM']
careful you know people dont believe those things anymore, especially on here. lol
[/quote]

what things?

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[quote name='brendan1104' post='1028856' date='Jul 22 2006, 12:46 PM']
Mutter Vogel was a German woman (not sure if she was definitely a nun) who lived in the early part of the 20th century. Her "revelations" have never been approved- in fact, I think she was condemned.

These quotes are from the popular Pieta prayer booklet- where unbelievable and heretical promises attached to looking at or carrying an image or prayer are found. The 'promises' attached to the "St. Bridget prayers"- the text itself of the prayer aren't bad- have been explicity condemned by the Vatican, and the other "promises" in the booklet are negated by the Church's dogmatic beliefs.

Much of what is contained in the Pieta prayer book is good: approved prayers, promotion of the Rosary and Scapular, etc. But some of it is heretical, superstitious, and wrong. This is exactly what the devil wants. The devil will say 10 things- 9 of which are very good, but the 10th will be bad and is intended to lead to the damnation and loss/harm of souls.

The Church's tradition teaches that Catholics can, and sometimes must rebuke or criticize the clergy- whether they are a priest, bishop, or pope if they teach heresy, disregard the rubrics and texts of the Mass and other Sacraments, are known to be sinning, etc. This is true today, more than ever- with the sex abuse scandal, rampant liturgical abuse, and false teaching and preaching.

Criticizing priests occured in the Church's earliest days, as can be read in Scripture. St. Paul rebuked St. Peter who was the pope and head of the Apostles publicly:

Galatians, Ch. 2 Vs. 11.

Mutter Vogel's "revelations" and "teachings" should be given no credence, no attention, and condemned.
[/quote]

I have a cousin who avidly promotes and encourages carrying around the pieta and all that it contains. Do you have any sort of information or links that I can direct to her with this information? Especially if there is some sort of condemnation from the Vatican! Thanks.

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Is that Pieta book paperback with a blue cover? I think I've seen one somewhere.

Edited by Colleen
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What I meant was, when I criticise certain elements in the Church, I end up getting the third degree. By "things" i meant, the lay people being able to criticize those in error. I.E.,"modernists", "liberals"...

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Oh my gosh, I never knew the pieta prayer book was condemned by the church! I own that prayer book and at one time, actually tried using it for devotions. I found the common prayers, rosary, divine mercy chaplet, and the st. bridget prayers, but I didn't know that the pieta prayer book wasn't approved. I bought it at my local Catholic bookstore and I don't believe that the owner of that store would put anything that would be harmful to local Catholics on her shelves. As prose asked, could you provide some info as to what the Church actually said concerning the pieta prayer book?

[quote name='Colleen']Is that Pieta book paperback with a blue cover? I think I've seen one somewhere.[/quote]

Yeah, it is.

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I also pretty much disagree with this Mutter person, whoever they are for the previously stated reasons.

Edited by iheartjp2
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