authentic papal statement

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]"Q. What should a Christian do who has been given a Bible by a Protestant or by an agent of the Protestants?
A. A Christian to whom a Bible has been offered by a Protestant or an agent of the Protestants should reject it with disgust, because it is forbidden by the Church. If it was accepted by inadvertence, it must be burnt as soon as possible or handed in to the Parish Priest."
~St. Pius X[/quote]

I suppose one could question how final that statement was intended by that pope. Like if a pope says priests should do this in the liturgy, the next can say no, and nohting was contradicted as nothing was meant as infallible.

But assuming that quote is authentic, isn't this an infallible statement? It's a teaching on faith and morals, to the Church, by the Pope. So isn't everyone bound to follow that?

Edited August 13, 2006 by dairygirl4u2c

[Socrates]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1042709' date='Aug 13 2006, 02:39 PM']
I suppose one could question how final that statement was intended by that pope. Like if a pope says priests should do this in the liturgy, the next can say no, and nohting was contradicted as nothing was meant as infallible.

But assuming that quote is authentic, isn't this an infallible statement? It's a teaching on faith and morals, to the Church, by the Pope. So isn't everyone bound to follow that?
[/quote]
This statement (if it is indeed genuine) is not a dogmatic statement, and is not on faith and morals. (It teaches no dogma; it is merely proscribes a course of action.) The issue being dealt with was protestants giving out protestant versions of the Bible (with protestant notes) for the purpose of "converting" Catholics to protestantism.

One can argue whether or not this proscription was prudent, but it definitely would not fall under the category of dogma.

[Resurrexi]

It's not dogma, but you comitt the grave mortal sin of disobedience if you don't reject a protestant bible with disgust, or, if you already have one, burn it or hand it in to the parish priest.

[ReinnieR]

there you go again with the mortal sin.

[Socrates]

It seems some context is needed if this discussion is to have any meaning. What is the source of this supposed quote?
It does not appear to be a binding, public statement. It would only be binding if the Pope made this statement publically and officially.

Edited August 14, 2006 by Socrates

[Mateo el Feo]

I would place this in the same basket as the ancient prohibition against cremation. The controversy regarding cremation had to do with the intent of those who were practicing it (i.e. the denial of the resurrection of the body).

At the time, the restriction of protestant translations was a prudential command. Intent could certainly affect this command, under the right circumstances. For example, if a priest or theologian lived in a protestant-majority community, he could very well benefit from owning a protestant translation of the Bible, resulting in more reasoned and informed apologetics.

I also don't think this was an infallible statement, because it doesn't really have to do with any article of faith and morals.

Nonetheless, it was binding on the faithful. But, I suspect that the Church, while She continues to ask Her children to avoid faulty translations of Holy Scriptures, does not intend to apply this command universally.

BTW, the quote is from the [url="http://www.ewtn.com/library/CATECHSM/PIUSXCAT.HTM"]Catechism of Saint Pius X (link)[/url].

[Catholic Fanatic]

[quote]It's not dogma, but you comitt the grave mortal sin of disobedience if you don't reject a protestant bible with disgust, or, if you already have one, burn it or hand it in to the parish priest.[/quote]

I like your style StThomas. If you all do not follow the words of the pope now that you have been made aware of them, you will burn in literal fires of hell, where the Terrible Judge will call you to Himself and have you killed, as He did in Luke. Obedience or damnation, the choice is simple.

[Resurrexi]

[quote] Nonetheless, it was binding on the faithful. But, I suspect that the Church, while She continues to ask Her children to avoid faulty translations of Holy Scriptures, does not intend to apply this command universally. [/quote]

It was and IS binding on all the Faithful. The Chuch's teachings do not change and never will change. The Church does intend to apply this command universely.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Catholic Fanatic' post='1043005' date='Aug 13 2006, 10:23 PM']I like your style StThomas. If you all do not follow the words of the pope now that you have been made aware of them, you will burn in literal fires of hell, where the Terrible Judge will call you to Himself and have you killed, as He did in Luke. Obedience or damnation, the choice is simple.[/quote]While I believe that obedience to Our Lord and His Church are of the highest importance regarding an individual's salvation, I think that it is ineffective to constantly badger non-Catholics by calling them heretics.

My role model for Christian charity in religious dialogue is St. Ignatius of Loyola. Reading an autobiography (e.g. [url="http://www.tanbooks.com/index.php/page/shop:flypage_gr/product_id/143/"]this book[/url]), or his own letters (e.g. [url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0829400850/qid=1139933312/sr=11-1/ref=sr_11_1/002-9461022-7954404?redirect=true&n=283155"]this book[/url]), one finds a saint who approaches those who dissent from Church teachings (e.g. protestants) with incredible gentleness and charity.

It is in stark contrast, that one sees the example of Martin Luther, who conjures up things like "the pope is the anti-Christ" or "the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon."

For the sake of the Church, I'd rather imitate St. Ignatius' gentle charity, rather than Luther's contentiousness.

[avemaria40]

I have a Protestant Bible from when I was first becoming acquainted with religion. Have I gotten rid of it? No, it's more of a keepsake from first really learning about Christianity. I also think I could benefit from owning it, so if I was defending the Catholic Faith and they said, it's only in your Catholic Bible, I could say it's also in the King James Bible as well. I know a lot of Protestants (from Workcamp, family members, my boyfriend,and kids at school) and it would greatly help with apologetics.

[avemaria40]

edit: my comp. is slow

Edited August 14, 2006 by avemaria40

[avemaria40]

ahhhh! triple post!!

Edited August 14, 2006 by avemaria40

[thessalonian]

Catholics were not in general forbidden from owning Bibles and I will bet by the time Pius XII came around most families did have a Bible in the home. The issue of course is the Protestant translations and the missing seven books. Likely the KJV still had the corrupt translation of Romans 3 as well where he inserts the word "alone" after "faith". Further there was not the amount of information available that there is today. I think the Pope's words under the circumstances were quite prudent.

Edited August 14, 2006 by thessalonian

[Resurrexi]

Catholics were never forbidden to own Catholic Bibles, only prot bibles.

[thessalonian]

I meant Pius X above regading the opening post in this thread. Protestants make accusations that Catholicism forbid bible reading and Popes were against the laity having Bibles. This has colored the thinking that has gone in to the question at hand quite clearly. As Stthomas said, it is only Protestant and other Bibles that such words are/were meant for. Why would the consciencous keeper entrusted with the scriptures want the faithful to have corrupt Bibles. The logic is that even with some corrupt it's still good. A glass of water with some arsenic for a man in the desert is still good is the fallacy of the logic.

Edited August 14, 2006 by thessalonian

[Tarcisius]

That quote is taken directly from the Pius X Catechism. Most phatmassers dont like it and try to make it seem like this Saint Pope was only talking about what to do at the point in time he spoke the words... They would rather trust that they, themselves are strong enough in there faith to decide what to do with dangerous false books.

[thessalonian]

I am fine with the quote and it certainly does have application today. We most certainly should have serious reason for reading anything that might damage our faith. However counter information is also much more readily availible today as well. Historical context does have to be taken in to account. I think your broadbrushing of phatmassers is a bit out of line.

Edited August 14, 2006 by thessalonian

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='avemaria40' post='1043540' date='Aug 14 2006, 08:33 AM']
ahhhh! triple post!!
[/quote]

Don’t you get a medal for that?

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1043594' date='Aug 14 2006, 11:02 AM']
Catholics were never forbidden to own Catholic Bibles, only prot bibles.
[/quote]
aha
I assume for reference purposes I am ok with also owning a Jehovah’s Witness Bible, a Mormon Bible, and a Bible with an expanded “apocrypha” ?

[Resurrexi]

[quote] aha
I assume for reference purposes I am ok with also owning a Jehovah’s Witness Bible, a Mormon Bible, and a Bible with an expanded “apocrypha” ?
[/quote]

The first two are protestant bibles so are automatically banned by the quote from the Catechism. But I'd really like to know if owning a bible with extra apocrypha (and I'm non talking about the dutero-canonicals, I"m speaking of books like the Acts of Pilate, the Gospel of the Nativity of Mary etc.) ever forbidden.

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1045953' date='Aug 18 2006, 10:13 AM']
The first two are protestant bibles so are automatically banned by the quote from the Catechism. But I'd really like to know if owning a bible with extra apocrypha (and I'm non talking about the dutero-canonicals, I"m speaking of books like the Acts of Pilate, the Gospel of the Nativity of Mary etc.) ever forbidden.
[/quote]
ya - so I think you understand me
and I am talking for reference purposes entirely
And I have all of these on my reference shelf

* StThomasMore, I am asking if you would feel I should not have these reference books in my possession?
This is def NOT for my “recommended reading” bookcase, for example.

What is your practical perspective?