St. Patrick

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Anyone heard of this? Is it merely a legend? What New Advent says about the patron Saint of the Irish:

many souls would be free from the pains of purgatory through his intercession;

whoever in the spirit of penance would recite his hymn before death would attain the heavenly reward;

barbarian hordes would never obtain sway in his Church;

seven years before the Judgement Day, the sea would spread over Ireland to save its people from the temptations and terrors of the Antichrist; and

greatest blessing of all, Patrick himself should be deputed to judge the whole Irish race on the last day.

[Aloysius]

hmmm ... i have no idea.

Jesus will judge all nations, so it can't be St. Patrick. Maybe He will oversee them making their way to the throne of judgment or somethin, but it's gotta be Christ doin the judgin. :P

[Circle_Master]

of course we will do some judging

1 Cor 6:3 "Do you not know that we are to judge angels?"

[Aloysius]

hmmm that's interesting.

just a theory, maybe someone here knows more about the original greek and meaning of that. could it have something to do with judging whether angels that come to us are angels of light or darkness? cuz it seems kind of odd that we would actually judge angels in a Christ-like role over them. someone look the greek up 4 me or somethin. thanx!

[Aloysius]

bumpity bump? :cool:

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Sorry I couldn't get back here sooner dudes. Here is what I've found:

of course we will do some judging

1 Cor 6:3 "Do you not know that we are to judge angels?"

I found a part of St. Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologica that deals with this topic specifically. Here is the link:

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/508908.htm

I am now pretty sure that the material in my original post is merely legend, although I haven't been able to find a straight-up answer. Many websites tell of this but only a few talk about it as a legend and such. I am accepting it as legend.

[Circle_Master]

i just believe it will be during the millennial kingdom. we will rule with Christ

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Is that Postmillennialism, Amillennialism, or Premillennialism? As a Catholic, I am with Amillennialism, though not typically refered to in that way.

[Circle_Master]

Is that Postmillennialism, Amillennialism, or Premillennialism? As a Catholic, I am with Amillennialism, though not typically refered to in that way.

premillenialism (believing that Christ will return and reign for 1000 years before final judgment)

[CICCIO]

wheres this millennialism stuf come from?

[frozencell]

of course we will do some judging

1 Cor 6:3 "Do you not know that we are to judge angels?"

It also states that we will judge the world. The Bible says that Christ will judge the world. I think the sense this is speaking in is that true Christians will be able to discern the things in the world as to what is right or wrong. We will be given the knowledge of God to discern. I think the word "judge" here is meaning "discern". So I would have to agree with "discerning" angels from godly and fallen, not determining whether they are worthy of heaven or not.

[frozencell]

wheres this millennialism stuf come from?

You might want to have a completely different SECTION, not thread, SECTION started just for this question alone. Protestants can't agree on this, either, and it can get pretty stinkin' complex and wierd.

[Circle_Master]

It also states that we will judge the world. The Bible says that Christ will judge the world. I think the sense this is speaking in is that true Christians will be able to discern the things in the world as to what is right or wrong. We will be given the knowledge of God to discern. I think the word "judge" here is meaning "discern". So I would have to agree with "discerning" angels from godly and fallen, not determining whether they are worthy of heaven or not.

perhaps - but if you notice the entire passage is about law disputes. it comes down to basically - if you can't figure out stuff among yourself, how are you going to judge the entire world?

discerning doesn't work here

the millenium comes from Rev. 20:1-10. There are many more verses used in conjunction with this and it gives an explanation as to how all the promises for a restoration of Israel can occur.

here is a nice defense of it from church history - http://www.biblicist.org/bible/premil.htm

note: this is for information - I don't pretend to have an understanding of all the arguments involved in this one.

Edited January 8, 2004 by Circle_Master

[frozencell]

perhaps - but if you notice the entire passage is about law disputes. it comes down to basically - if you can't figure out stuff among yourself, how are you going to judge the entire world?

discerning doesn't work here

the millenium comes from Rev. 20:1-10. There are many more verses used in conjunction with this and it gives an explanation as to how all the promises for a restoration of Israel can occur.

here is a nice defense of it from church history - http://www.biblicist.org/bible/premil.htm

note: this is for information - I don't pretend to have an understanding of all the arguments involved in this one.

And this is where we run into the problem of the "other" thread. If we can't "discern" who is right between Catholics and Protestants (among ourselves) how are we going to figure out if anything else is right or not?

Discerning works very well here.

I'm not objecting to the millenium. I believe there will be a millenium, too. But I also think that we weren't meant to sit and debate in what order it was going to come, either. It should be sufficiaent to know that Christ will return for His people and that the devil, in the end, will be defeated for all time. I'm satisfied with that.

[MC Just]

Catholics rule with Christ as we speak. His kingdom was started in 33 A.D. He came to Rule in the Holy Eucharist. He has been ruling since.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Still on the angels thing? Read what Aquinas wrote! ---^

The millenium stuff is a huge topic. Here is a Catholic position:

http://www.catholic.com/library/Rapture.asp

Edited January 8, 2004 by thedude

[Circle_Master]

And this is where we run into the problem of the "other" thread. If we can't "discern" who is right between Catholics and Protestants (among ourselves) how are we going to figure out if anything else is right or not?

Discerning works very well here.

I meant discerning instead of judging in the passage

I'm not objecting to the millenium. I believe there will be a millenium, too. But I also think that we weren't meant to sit and debate in what order it was going to come, either. It should be sufficiaent to know that Christ will return for His people and that the devil, in the end, will be defeated for all time. I'm satisfied with that.

I find that fascinating (really). I thought that amillenialism was one of the accepted doctrines of the Catholic Church. Well either amil or postmil

[frozencell]

I find that fascinating (really). I thought that amillenialism was one of the accepted doctrines of the Catholic Church. Well either amil or postmil

What I meant was that I see an overabundant amount of Protestants OBSESSED with the order of the end times. It's okay to have a view, but I don't think God wants us to be consumed with it. There are more important things to Christianity than the end of the world.

[Circle_Master]

What I meant was that I see an overabundant amount of Protestants OBSESSED with the order of the end times. It's okay to have a view, but I don't think God wants us to be consumed with it. There are more important things to Christianity than the end of the world.

well - it also determines how you view israel and if you expect them to have a country again someday. Romans talks about 'all israel' coming to salvation before the millennium, so is this really the church it is speaking of and a given, or would you support israel in hopes of this coming someday.

[Anna]

The Church is the New Israel in the New Testament.