A dog under the altar.

[zunshynn]

My mom did point out that it was possible that it was a service dog. Because they do have dogs that can sense when someone is about to have a seizure or something and know what to do if something happens. But I don't know why it has to be literally under the altar...

and I would think that a service dog would be more attentive than this one.

[Aloysius]

i'm still wondering about the RULES in this department... are regular ordinary dogs allowed in the church during mass? is there a rule that they aren't allowed in the sanctuary? if neither such rule exists, and the dog was not damaging anything, it is no one's place to complain to a bishop over it. perhaps telling the priest it bothered you: that's acceptable; but unless there's a rule either in the GIRM, canon law, or any other norms laid out by some ecclesiastical body, I cannot see justification for complaining to the bishop and personally I don't even mind that the dog is there at all if it's doing nothing but laying there. (unless it violates something; I always mind anything that violates liturgical rules)

[God the Father]

[quote name='zunshynn' post='1044117' date='Aug 15 2006, 01:46 PM']
So I was in Lake Tahoe this weekend and went to Mass at the local parish.

It seemed alright at first—nice sanctuary, and so on, although the music was pretty typical mediocre stuff and they had a ton of people in the procession (all of the EEMs, lectors, and such)

But then at the beginning while the opening song was still going the priest comes down from the sanctuary and gets this dog... brings him up to the sanctuary... and HAS HIM LAY DOWN UNDER THE ALTAR. I'm not kidding. So the dog is up under the altar sleeping and rolling around a few times through the entire Mass. I couldn't believe my eyes. And aside from that, either no one though anything of it or they thought it was really awesome! I don't even know how to complain about such a thing?!
[/quote]

How awful. Jesus would be terribly upset. We all know how the Man hated dogs amirite?

[zunshynn]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1045415' date='Aug 17 2006, 10:01 AM']
i'm still wondering about the RULES in this department... are regular ordinary dogs allowed in the church during mass? is there a rule that they aren't allowed in the sanctuary? if neither such rule exists, and the dog was not damaging anything, it is no one's place to complain to a bishop over it. perhaps telling the priest it bothered you: that's acceptable; but unless there's a rule either in the GIRM, canon law, or any other norms laid out by some ecclesiastical body, I cannot see justification for complaining to the bishop and personally I don't even mind that the dog is there at all if it's doing nothing but laying there. (unless it violates something; I always mind anything that violates liturgical rules)
[/quote]

There wouldn't be something in canon law about it unless there had been a problem before. I somehow doubt this happens frequently.

Think about it... would you think it was appropriate for a person to be sleeping under the altar during Mass?

[jiyoung]

Isn't only the priest allowed in the sanctuary, anyway? And I'd assume that under the altar would constitute sanctuary.

[Franimus]

the altar servers are allowed there too.. and the EMs... and at my parish the lector goes between the chairs and the altar (chairs behind center behind the altar) to receive communion
Oh, and let's not forget FUS where the entire music ministry goes there too to receive communion.

Edited August 18, 2006 by Franimus

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1045415' date='Aug 17 2006, 12:01 PM']
i'm still wondering about the RULES in this department... are regular ordinary dogs allowed in the church during mass? is there a rule that they aren't allowed in the sanctuary? if neither such rule exists, and the dog was not damaging anything, it is no one's place to complain to a bishop over it. perhaps telling the priest it bothered you: that's acceptable; but unless there's a rule either in the GIRM, canon law, or any other norms laid out by some ecclesiastical body, I cannot see justification for complaining to the bishop and personally I don't even mind that the dog is there at all if it's doing nothing but laying there. (unless it violates something; I always mind anything that violates liturgical rules)
[/quote]

Al, check this thread I started (I thought it would be worthy of its own thread):

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=56207"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=56207[/url]

Although here the Mass is outdoors....

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Lahecil' post='1044184' date='Aug 15 2006, 02:36 PM']
First, there are legally ordained pagan priests and priestesses. Second, yeah, most of us have "Craft names", mine I don't disclose to anyone, but there are those like...Ms...SoulTar who have...unique...tastes... As for the dog, some pagans do keep familiars, which can be useful in meditation, magick, etc. The combination of the three though...makes me crack up laughing. I still can't get over SoulTar though, it sounds like a cruddy superhero.
[/quote]
this reminds me of stuff that I was into when I was a kid. I was intrigued by the familiar of Myrddin Wyllt (sometimes called Merlin) who was a pig. hehe The movies and stories don't really do the man justice. Although Taliessin was my real fave.

Of course I was never into magick or anything, just liked the old legends and poetry..

[Lahecil]

[quote]this reminds me of stuff that I was into when I was a kid. I was intrigued by the familiar of Myrddin Wyllt (Merlin) who was a pig. hehe The movies and stories don't really do the man justice. Although Taliessin was my real fave.

Of course I was never into magick or anything, just liked the old legends and poetry..[/quote]

Me too! I love those stories so much...but Gandalf is still my one and only.

[Laudate_Dominum]

Interestingly, Geoffrey of Monmouth, the 12th century fellow who incorporated Myrddin into the more popular stories (the transformation into Merlin) was a Catholic priest.

[quote name='Lahecil' post='1046650' date='Aug 20 2006, 09:54 AM']
Me too! I love those stories so much...but Gandalf is still my one and only.
[/quote]
oh yes, Gandalf.. Another Wizard conjured up by a Catholic. haha This is starting the freak me out.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Lahecil' post='1044184' date='Aug 15 2006, 03:36 PM']
[b]First, there are legally ordained pagan priests and priestesses. Second, yeah, most of us have "Craft names",[/b] mine I don't disclose to anyone, but there are those like...Ms...SoulTar who have...unique...tastes... As for the dog, some pagans do keep familiars, which can be useful in meditation, magick, etc. The combination of the three though...makes me crack up laughing. I still can't get over SoulTar though, it sounds like a cruddy superhero.
[/quote]
looks like someone is going to get the 'i don't rep the church' tag

[Lahecil]

[quote]oh yes, Gandalf.. Another Wizard conjured up by a Catholic. haha This is starting the freak me out. [/quote]
LOL! Tell me about it! Catholics have had a HUGE influence on ceremonial magick, and therefore certain Wiccan aspects as well. Really, I owe you folks a big thanks!

[quote]looks like someone is going to get the 'i don't rep the church' tag [/quote]
Eh, probably. Considering, I don't. At least I don't hate it. But there seriously ARE pagan priests and priestesses that can legally marry a couple in a handfasting. If you'd like a listing, Witchvox.com has a huge database. And Craft names are similar to Confirmation names, except Craft names sound extremely hippie-ish.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1046701' date='Aug 20 2006, 11:04 AM']
looks like someone is going to get the 'i don't rep the church' tag
[/quote]
I always assumed that the 'i don't rep the church' thing was reserved for people who are anti-Catholic? I guess I never asked..

[quote name='Lahecil' post='1046712' date='Aug 20 2006, 11:10 AM']
LOL! Tell me about it! Catholics have had a HUGE influence on ceremonial magick, and therefore certain Wiccan aspects as well. Really, I owe you folks a big thanks!
[/quote]
I guess I never really thought about it.. I'm more familiar with the ways in which old pagan traditions were "baptised". I suppose it goes both ways. Small world.

[XIX]

[quote name='Lahecil' post='1046712' date='Aug 20 2006, 11:10 AM']
LOL! Tell me about it! Catholics have had a HUGE influence on ceremonial magick, and therefore certain Wiccan aspects as well. Really, I owe you folks a big thanks!
Eh, probably. Considering, I don't. At least I don't hate it. But there seriously ARE pagan priests and priestesses that can legally marry a couple in a handfasting. If you'd like a listing, Witchvox.com has a huge database. And Craft names are similar to Confirmation names, except Craft names sound extremely hippie-ish.
[/quote]
Define "legally."

[Lahecil]

[quote]Define "legally." [/quote]
I mean, they're ordained clergy, and can officiate at a wedding ( handfasting) recognized by the government.
[url="http://www.witchvox.com/vn/vn_index/xclergy.html"]http://www.witchvox.com/vn/vn_index/xclergy.html[/url]
See? There are 65 listed in NY where I live.