Two orders

[HeavenlyCalling]

Can anyone tell me where these two groups stand with the church? I ask only because of some rumors I've heard, nut I want to know if anyone knows for sure.
[url="http://admc-op.org"]The Adrian sisters[/url]
[url="http://eriebenedictines.org"]Sisters of Erie[/url]

[brendan1104]

You can't tell from the pictures?

[HeavenlyCalling]

well, you cant always judge a book by the cover, I was wondering if anyone had some hard facts about them, other then the stuff on the website.

[zunshynn]

You know it seems I have heard that the Dominicans of Adrian are a good order... but as a rule I would say that orders that don't wear a habit should be avoided.

The Church DOES call for a habit, so if an order doesn't at all, they aren't in complete accord with the Church. And aside from that, not wearing a habit USUALLY is a sign that they disagree with the magisterium on even more important matters of faith (such as "women's ordination," the masculinity of God, infallibility, etc.) which of course is completely unacceptable.

Edited August 29, 2006 by zunshynn

[puellapaschalis]

The Erie Sisters are probably most (in)famous for Sr. Joan Chittister, who has written and spoken contrary to Church teaching on such issues as women's "ordination". When the Holy See asked Sr. Joan's superior to deny her permission to travel to a pro-women's-ordination conference, the superior (forgive me, I forget her name) declined, quoting (erroneously, I believe) Benedict's Rule.

That's all I know in response to your question. They are a fairly large community, though, with an active Oblate structure in place.

Love and prayers,

PP

[brendan1104]

Some Adrian Dominican sisters refuse to go to Mass, even on Sundays.

Several were interviewed for a book on religious life published last year, or late 2004. I can't remember... I'll post a link or an excerpt or something if I can find one.

[HeavenlyCalling]

PLEASE DO, if you can find it. How can you be a nun and not go to church? Doesn't the supierer say something to them?

[zunshynn]

[quote name='HeavenlyCalling' post='1052972' date='Aug 29 2006, 01:48 PM']
PLEASE DO, if you can find it. How can you be a nun and not go to church? Doesn't the supierer say something to them?
[/quote]

They would if they had a problem with it. Unfortunately some don't. I've heard about nuns that don't feel a need to go to Mass at all... I think I know the book you're talking about Brendan... is it "Unveiled". Actually that's not the one I'm thinking of. I can't remember the title, but it has a clip-art sort of picture of a nun on the front with a blue background...

[HeavenlyCalling]

Then they aren't really nuns, and some one ( like a bishop or cardinal) should tell them that in no uncertian terms. Is there an artical I can read, as I dont have acess to the book?

[brendan1104]

I guess you could google it?

[zunshynn]

[quote name='HeavenlyCalling' post='1052983' date='Aug 29 2006, 02:02 PM']
Then they aren't really nuns, and some one ( like a bishop or cardinal) should tell them that in no uncertian terms. Is there an artical I can read, as I dont have acess to the book?
[/quote]

Well, really, by virtue of their vows, they are still nuns even though they have not been faithful to them...

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote]
Well, really, by virtue of their vows, they are still nuns even though they have not been faithful to them...
[/quote]

Doesn't that stop somewhere? How un-consecrated must you act before your vows "sizzle"? Do they only when you do things which are punished by excommunication, or are there other criteria?

It's slightly off-topic, sorry. But this got me wondering.

[be_thou_my_vision]

The book is called "For the Love of God: Faith and Future of the American Nun." I read it, but honestly I don't remeber much from it.

[puellapaschalis]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1053042' date='Aug 30 2006, 12:37 AM']
Doesn't that stop somewhere? How un-consecrated must you act before your vows "sizzle"? Do they only when you do things which are punished by excommunication, or are there other criteria?

It's slightly off-topic, sorry. But this got me wondering.
[/quote]

Hm. Well, Ordination vows are for life, Baptismal vows (esp when reinforced at Confirmation) are for life, Marriage vows are for as long as both husband and wife are alive. But they're all sacraments.

However, vows to the consecrated life are a deepening of the Baptismal vows, so perhaps they come under that. But then I'm sure we all know people who have left religious life and "unknitted" the vows. So my conclusion is...I don't know.

Any canon lawyers or generic experts on here?

Love and prayers,

PP

[zunshynn]

Well the Church has to officially acknowledge that you're renouncing your vows or whatever and in a sense "un-bind" the vow I think. At least that's what happened when my grandfather's sister left religious life after she'd already been professed.

[shortnun]

[quote name='HeavenlyCalling' post='1052906' date='Aug 29 2006, 02:36 PM']
well, you cant always judge a book by the cover, I was wondering if anyone had some hard facts about them, other then the stuff on the website.
[/quote]
Thank you for coming into this with an investigative mind. I personally appreciate it, and I think your attitude is in light with our charitable approach and commentary about religious communities that we strive to achieve here on Phatmass (the Vocation Station in particular).

The Adrian Dominicans are the largest congregation of Dominican women in the US. At their largest I believe they were over 3000 and are currently over 900. I currently attend classes with their three novices while they're studying at the Collaborative Dominican Novitiate. (And I've had classes with others of them before, as well.) I've also been taught at a graduate level by an Adrian Dominican (who happens to have been former prioress of the community in Siena Heights). And know have a number of close friends (men and women) who are Adrian Associates.

[b]My experience with these sisters is in no way applicable to each and every Adrian Dominican woman. But it is from these encounters that I have critically reflected and come up with the following conclusions. Again, I speak only from my experience, and critical reflection.[/b]

[i]The Adrian Dominicans are in communion with Rome.[/i] I admire your desire to know more about these communities. And Phatmass is a [u]wealth[/u] of knowledge when it comes to information about communities. But hearsay and reflections (even the one I'm sharing with you all now) will [u]never[/u] be as valuable as if you were able to call a community, or meet some of their members.





In response to zunshynn's comments about some sisters not wanting to go to Mass on Sundays, I would just offer the helpful reminder that sisters (and other religious) are not the only demographic of the Church body who do not feel a need to attend Mass (or pray, or participate in the sacramental life of the Church). And I have my own theories on why I think this attitude is prevalent, as I'm sure you do as well.



*clink, clink* <--------- my two cents

[zunshynn]

[quote name='shortnun' post='1053223' date='Aug 29 2006, 07:04 PM']

In response to zunshynn's comments about some sisters not wanting to go to Mass on Sundays, I would just offer the helpful reminder that sisters (and other religious) are not the only demographic of the Church body who do not feel a need to attend Mass (or pray, or participate in the sacramental life of the Church).

[/quote]

Good point—unfortunately.

Though I should clarify I don't know anything about this particular congregation not going to Mass, unless the sister I read about in For the Love of God was an Adrian Dominican... but I don't recall her order.

Edited August 30, 2006 by zunshynn

[Like a Child]

The Adrian Dominicans and the Erie Benedictines are awesome! Both congregations are full of women who are in love with God and dedicated to Christ. They do incredible work. . .and our world would be worse off without them.

I wanted to mention, too, that the VAST majority of sisters today do NOT wear a traditional habit. (The number, I believe, is somewhere around 90%). This does not make them any less loyal to our Lord Jesus Christ.

Also, did you know that it's okay to recognize that God is not a man? God is so far above gender!!!! So, of course, many sisters (and other Christians!) prefer to call upon God in non-patriarchal terms.

Also, unlike many church leaders who have come after Him, Jesus was not a sexist. He accepted women in a way that no man ever did before. He was FRIENDS with all sorts of women, including those who were considered unclean, and he had many women followers (Mark 15:40-41, Luke 7:36-50, Luke 8:2-3, John 11:5, John 20:11-18.) He loved women who church leaders today, and who religious leaders back then, would have rejected. He told Mary of Bethany, who chose to sit at his feet as a disciple instead of leaving that to the men and helping Martha with domestic chores, that she had made the right decision (Luke 10:38-42). He was RADICALLY INCLUSIVE when it came to women. Supporting women's ordination may not "jive" with official Church doctrine, but it does "jive" with the spirit of the teachings our Lord meant to impart.

I don't mean to be rude. . .and I didn't mean to hijack this thread. Also --(DISCLAIMER)-- I don't know if the Adrian Dominicans or the Erie Benedictines would agree with what I have written above. But I do know that MANY Catholics and MANY sisters DO believe thus. They are doing Christ's work in the world (and many, like me, still NEED and LOVE the Mass). . .and they shouldn't be written off just because they do not believe exactly as most phat-massers do.

By the way. . .the book alluded to above, I believe, is "Unveiled: The Hidden Lives of Nuns," by Cheryl L. Reed.

Peace,
Like a Child