Religious Leaders' Statement on Christian Zionism

[kdewolf2]

I applaud the statement on Christian Zionism.

Christian Zionism is a real problem here in the United States, and I wish we could hear more from our religious leaders on the topic.

Some of the responses here prove the point, especially Knight of Christ, who seems to think WE are right, and THEY are wrong, and that settles it.

Of course, terrorism is wrong and I have no doubt that God will judge anybody who takes part in terrorist actions harshly.

However, the United States and Israel have committed numerous crimes and atrocities throughout their history which make an isolated terrorist attack, like 9/11, pale in comparison.

And, it's not like terrorists kill people just because they feel like killing people. They do have their grievances, and it's certainly not the best way to redress those grievances, but desperate men do desperate things, especially when nobody is listening.

Christian Zionism is a problem because the whole ideology of the "chosen people" and the "promised land" blinds Christians to palpable injustice and prevents them from becoming real peacemakers, instead of narrow-minded, jingoistic, Islam-bashing, war-loving cretins.

BTW, a condemnation of Zionism does not amount to anti-Semitism. There have been plenty of Jews who have taken a stand for peace and condemned Zionism.

[Aloysius]

I do not so much hold religiously that the jews are not allowed into the holy land until the coming of the Messiah (though the Talmud holds that and if I were a Jew I would probably believe that). As far as I see it the whole world basically condemned colonialism and fought revolutions everywhere to get rid of it... but of course the British colony in Palestine could be colonized by a dispersed group from Europe and everybody's fine with it because they have a biblical name

the Jews never should have created a state there, and [b]there will be no peace as long as the state of israel is[/b] (at the very least as big as it is now) [b] in Palistine[/b]

They had no right to form the state of israel because after two millenia they no longer have any right to that land.

The Palestinians have a just greviance with a foreign entity taking control of their homeland and making them into second class citizens.

the most pro-semte thing to do would be to give the [i]semitic[/i] arabs sovereignty over their own land.

btw, sorry I didn't see the mention of the united states in the artical. i re-read it even did a search through my web browser before I posted that; must've missed it and hit two keys at once or something and made a typo

the existence of Israel is in itself something bad and evil. I also condemn the targeting of civilians on both sides and the cowardice of those who hide and launch attacks from civilian areas.

Israel is a state full of semitic europeans (two millenia living there makes them europeans in my book) controling a colony in the land of Palestine usurping the right to self-determination and self-sovereignty by the people there. Anyone else we would condemn for creating such a situation.

You can destroy Hezbollah and the PLO and Hamas, in a few decades there will be new groups. There are only two options: the genocide of the Palestinians (which would invite a more widespread and popular jihad from the rest of the muslim world so, a genocide of all arabs would be inevitably necessary) or the dissassembling of the state of Israel.

[Era Might]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1056765' date='Sep 4 2006, 07:09 PM']the Jews never should have created a state there, and [b]there will be no peace as long as the state of israel is[/b] (at the very least as big as it is now) [b] in Palistine[/b]

...

The Palestinians have a just greviance with a foreign entity taking control of their homeland and making them into second class citizens.

...

the existence of Israel is in itself something bad and evil. I also condemn the targeting of civilians on both sides and the cowardice of those who hide and launch attacks from civilian areas.[/quote]
Sounds a lot like the creation of the "United States of America". We took all this land from the Indians, and used violence to obtain it. No, that should never have taken place, and no, the "United States of America" should have never come to be, but they did, just as the state of Israel came to be, and that has to be accepted. Palestinians and Israelis CAN live in peace, just as Americans and American Indians can live in peace today. Israel is no more "evil" than the United States of America. If we are afforded to right to Patriotism in our nation, which was stolen and built off the back of institutional slavery, then Israelis have a right to Patriotism for their nation. They don't have to apologize for existing anymore than we do, even though, if we could do it over again, we would choose not to exist, at least not at the expense of others.

To say that Israel has to be disassembled is as ludicrous as saying the United States of America should disband the union and return authority to local Indian tribes. And there are people out there who would advocate that, but it's unacceptable. We have to live together, and let the past rest in the past.