Letting go

[Marieteresa]

I know everyone is saying this religious life has sacrfices and what not. Its not only about the letter writing...its also about visiting regulations. Just the fact that its reserved for family only....if your estranged then no one is going to be able to visit. I guess its what one can handle...God didn't give us more than we can handle

[OLAM Dad]

God also gave us a plethora of options when it comes to religious communities. If you think that it will be impossible to live under a certain set of rules then you should look at other communities. Or maybe you definitely feel called to this community but can't reconcile that with the rules that seem impossible to you?

Either way, you're in my prayers, Shernel.

[franciscanheart]

I'm not really sure what to say...

[TheresaMF]

The biggest sign for me that I had found the right place to enter was that I accepted everything. It was all about Jesus; and everything I saw (the chant, the habit, the loving spirit) seemed perfect, but there was sooo much I didn't know about the sisters' life and everything, but I just thought: THIS IS WHAT I WANT. Sister would ask me if I had any questions, and I would be puzzled. "Uh, no! It doesn't matter." Not that I don't care what they do, but everything is included in wanting to give myself all to Jesus HERE, and to be like these beautiful, loving brides of Christ.

Everywhere I had looked into before, I had been nitpicky about "oh I like this, but not that" etc. So this "whatever" experience was very different.

Prayers.

[TheresaMF]

[deleting double post]

Edited September 5, 2006 by TheresaMF

[brandelynmarie]

We would do our family & friends a great disservice if we did not miss them & want to maintain strong ties to them & communicate with them on a regular basis...I believe this is where the ties of the heart & the intimacy of prayer comes in...it is a penance to not be able to call loved ones on the phone or write letters when we want to! My father has already told me that if I enter the monastery he would never see me again on this earth...His health is not good enough to travel very far & sometimes I doubt that my step-mom would be able to visit often either....I agree with what TheresaMF said...peace will show you where you belong...& OLAM Dad gave sound advice as well...

[stlmom]

I'm with Olam Dad on his last post (#22). If you really feel called to religious life and you have friendships that fill the void that family cannot, I'm sure there is a community out there with allowances for such circumstances. I'll bet there are more discerners than you know with similar stories.
God bless!

[zunshynn]

MarieTeresa, have you spoken to Reverend Mother about this, about your close friends being more like your family than your actual family? It might make a difference. Perhaps they would be willing to consider them your family as far as visiting and writing goes. Sometimes our impulse might be to hear about how something is and think ok, that's it, but really, often things like that have to be decided on an individual basis. And really if this is bothering you, I'm sure she'd want to know. Perhaps things will stay the same. But talking to her about it might help.

[franciscanheart]

Yes, definitely. Reverend Mother needs to know and perhaps this knowledge will help you. If not, at least everyone is on the same page and you all can work together to either overcome this issue or decide to move on...

[Marieteresa]

I am not assuming anything, I have spoken to Mother Mistress and she has spoken to Rev. Mother about this. She knows the situation and how I regard this person as my family. The only thing that they are willing to allow is for me to write at Easter and at Christmas a Christmas card. No visits from any friends, no writing to my monk friend who is in seminary until after ordination. She said that the community pretty much becomes your family. (If you do have blood relatives that you are close to you can write once a month and they may visit, not during certain seasons) On a lighter note a friend of mine made a interesting suggestion.....He said prision sounds better....at least you can write to people and you can have visitors ( He doesn't believe in God) I am really wrestling with this because I liked it very much there if I didn't like it so much I would have written them off. I mean seriously could any of you guys imagine not having visitors for YEARS or maybe never because you were estranged from family and if they could visit them being so far away that a yearly visit might be out of the question. (I am saying if you were in a particular situation) No phone calls either.....Seriously I wonder how many of you guys would be willing to detach yourself completely from everybody. Just my thoughts

Edited September 6, 2006 by Marieteresa

[zunshynn]

Have you spoken to this particular friend about this? I'm not saying you should make a decision solely on what she says, but she might actually be really supportive. She might really understand and be able to help you.

You ask us what we would be willing to do... but really, that's not the point. It's what are you willing to do, and do you believe God is asking that of you? Because it has nothing to do with your own ability, because God will give you the grace to do it, if this is what he wants from you.

A lot of people do detach themselves completely like you're suggesting. Carthusians, for example, Francicans of the Primitive Observance, and a number of other communities even to a greater degree. But it's not because they themselves are capable of doing so, it's because God gives them the grace to do it, and they simply submit to it. And they are joy-filled, because your community does become your family, and your friends do mysteriously become closer to you.

The communities many of us are discerning with perhaps are not as strict (again, that word!), but that's because God leads us to different places, and he gives us the grace according to our needs, and rewards us according to what we give. I can't say if God led you here or not. But if you believe he has, perhaps you should just give it a chance and see.

[stlmom]

Shernel, if I were in your shoes and felt as strongly as you do about this situation, I would keep looking at other communities. Just remember that no matter where you go, even to the most liberal community on the face of the earth, by virtue of entering religious life, the frequency of your interactions with friends will change.
Specifically, what would you hope to have in the way of contact with friends if you were to enter somewhere?

[be_thou_my_vision]

i agree with stlmom, if the community does not fit you and your needs logically, why not look into some others for a while? I am not at all saying that God doesn't suffice and give us grace; i certainly believe that. But God uses, also, human reason to direct us. If this community is not practical to you and your needs, then maybe you should reconsider looking into other communities for a while. God may definitely bring you back to this one in time.

God bless you, dear.

[zunshynn]

I agree... I hope my post didn't sound like well, maybe you're just not being open to what God wants. I looked back at it, and it might have, but I didn't mean it too. But really, God doesn't call us to a vocation that will make us miserable, so if that's really troubling you, that might be God's way of saying that you aren't in the right place.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Marieteresa' post='1057856' date='Sep 6 2006, 01:23 PM']
I am not assuming anything, I have spoken to Mother Mistress and she has spoken to Rev. Mother about this. She knows the situation and how I regard this person as my family. The only thing that they are willing to allow is for me to write at Easter and at Christmas a Christmas card. No visits from any friends, no writing to my monk friend who is in seminary until after ordination. She said that the community pretty much becomes your family. (If you do have blood relatives that you are close to you can write once a month and they may visit, not during certain seasons) On a lighter note a friend of mine made a interesting suggestion.....He said prision sounds better....at least you can write to people and you can have visitors ( He doesn't believe in God) I am really wrestling with this because I liked it very much there if I didn't like it so much I would have written them off. I mean seriously could any of you guys imagine not having visitors for YEARS or maybe never because you were estranged from family and if they could visit them being so far away that a yearly visit might be out of the question. (I am saying if you were in a particular situation) No phone calls either.....Seriously I wonder how many of you guys would be willing to detach yourself completely from everybody. Just my thoughts
[/quote]
any response i may give will be quite inadequate since i can not be who you are or understand exactly what God is asking of you. it is not possible for you to receive a good answer from any us because we are not the community you are discerning with nor are any of us you. you challenge us with your words and yet all we are doing is trying to help you discern this for yourself. in the end, our advice is nothing if it is not what God wills for you. what God wills for you is what you must seek first and foremost, not the words of men who assume to know what is best.

[quote name='zunshynn' post='1057870' date='Sep 6 2006, 01:58 PM']
Have you spoken to this particular friend about this? I'm not saying you should make a decision solely on what she says, but she might actually be really supportive. She might really understand and be able to help you.

You ask us what we would be willing to do... but really, that's not the point. It's what are you willing to do, and do you believe God is asking that of you? Because it has nothing to do with your own ability, because God will give you the grace to do it, if this is what he wants from you.

A lot of people do detach themselves completely like you're suggesting. Carthusians, for example, Francicans of the Primitive Observance, and a number of other communities even to a greater degree. But it's not because they themselves are capable of doing so, it's because God gives them the grace to do it, and they simply submit to it. And they are joy-filled, because your community does become your family, and your friends do mysteriously become closer to you.

The communities many of us are discerning with perhaps are not as strict (again, that word!), but that's because God leads us to different places, and he gives us the grace according to our needs, and rewards us according to what we give. I can't say if God led you here or not. But if you believe he has, perhaps you should just give it a chance and see.
[/quote]
Truly this is wise counsel - most likely from our Lord with His Lady. I applaud zynshynn's response and full-heartedly second it.

[Marieteresa]

I wasn't Challenging anyone with my words.....I was just wondering if you guys were faced with the same situation what would you do. If the community that you were currently interested in had these policies. Would you easily accept them as sacrfice or would you look else where. I am just wanting people to seriously think about it than to give empty words such as accept it and follow Gods will. I wish I could have did a poll or something to see how many of you guys would be seriously do this if your current community had this policy.

Edited September 6, 2006 by Marieteresa

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Marieteresa' post='1058011' date='Sep 6 2006, 05:09 PM']
I wasn't Challenging anyone with my words.....I was just wondering if you guys were faced with the same situation what would you do. If the community that you were currently interested in had these policies. Would you easily accept them as sacrfice or would you look else where.[/quote]
Perhaps challenge was the wrong word. The post I was quoting did seem desperate and frustrated. Let me post it again for elaborating...

[quote name='Marieteresa' post='1057856' date='Sep 6 2006, 01:23 PM']
I am not assuming anything, I have spoken to Mother Mistress and she has spoken to Rev. Mother about this. She knows the situation and how I regard this person as my family. The only thing that they are willing to allow is for me to write at Easter and at Christmas a Christmas card. No visits from any friends, no writing to my monk friend who is in seminary until after ordination. She said that the community pretty much becomes your family. (If you do have blood relatives that you are close to you can write once a month and they may visit, not during certain seasons) On a lighter note a friend of mine made a interesting suggestion.....He said prision sounds better....at least you can write to people and you can have visitors ( He doesn't believe in God) I am really wrestling with this because I liked it very much there if I didn't like it so much I would have written them off. I mean seriously could any of you guys imagine not having visitors for YEARS or maybe never because you were estranged from family and if they could visit them being so far away that a yearly visit might be out of the question. (I am saying if you were in a particular situation) No phone calls either.....[b]Seriously I wonder how many of you guys would be willing to detach yourself completely from everybody. Just my thoughts[/b]
[/quote]
I guess it seems as if you are trying to prove to us how difficult it would be to give up these people who have taken on the role of family for you. But you don't need to! Certainly we could never understand EXACTLY the role and place of these people in your life or the type of attachment you have to them but we don't need to. The advice that has been given is to follow God's will in all things. That advice is not relative to the difficulty of the task. It is and always will be the ultimate goal in life. The difficulty is no matter for in the end it is still God asking us to pick up our cross and follow Him. Each person is faced with different challenges and each challenge is of varying degree. We do not look at each other and judge whether or not we should follow Christ based on the challenge or the degree. We look at each other and convict each other in Christ. We encourage each other to ALWAYS do the will of the Father, to always seek holiness and to strive for sainthood.

[quote name='Marieteresa' post='1058011' date='Sep 6 2006, 05:09 PM']
I am just wanting people to seriously think about it [b]than to give empty words such as accept it and follow Gods will.[/b] I wish I could have did a poll or something to see how many of you guys would be seriously do this if your current community had this policy.
[/quote]
Those aren't empty words! Please do not glance over such advice simply because it sounds like things some people say when they are at a loss for words! We are weak in our language but not in our good intentions and honest advice. Not all of us are suffering with your struggle but surely we all have faced tough challenges in life. This is practical advice! To follow God's will is to do what is good and holy and right. It is what will give you true peace and joy, despite the circumstances, if you allow it! No one has said that such a sacrifice would be easy. We know it would not be easy by any means. However, we still challenge you to follow God's will, not your own. We challenge you to sacrifice even those things which are most dear to you in order to please God and to serve Him faithfully and FULLY. No one has assumed to know that you are meant for this convent. All advice that would [i]appear[/i] to have you stay and to make this sacrifice has simply challenged you to discern whether this is something you should give up for Christ. It has challenged you to discern what is, in the grand scheme of things, more important. It has challenged you to look at the HARD side of the situation, the HARD answer. It is the other side of the coin and yes, it is ugly to our human desires. But, it is still the other side, another option. You CAN give it up for Christ and you CAN do it with joy, if you choose to and if God wills that for you. Not to mention you WILL be blessed. Many graces WILL be poured out on you from our Father if you decide to give up this thing that means so much to you for Him. And again let me say that we could probably never give you a completely accurate answer to your question. We are not you and we are not being asked to do this by the community or by God. Not being in the situation and not having family circumstances such as yours, it is not a capability of ours to give you the answer you seek. Indeed, only God can give it to you. So again I say: Seek the will of the Father. Do what is pleasing to Him. Seek and follow Him in all things. Relying on Him for all things, you can't go wrong. Trust always.

You have my prayers.

[brandelynmarie]

Marieteresa...I think a poll might help...Although, this is a very difficult decision to make....The more I think about what you are saying...the more I realize I have a friend who is more like family...And now i am wondering what will happen...She is not Catholic either & may not understand limits with visiting...(I must give this some more thought...)

Oh! I am also thinking of Blessed Elizabeth of the Trinity...She would "meet" a friend of hers daily at 8pm...They would pray for each other at that time & her friend would hold a crucifix that she gave her...Peace be with you!

[zunshynn]

[quote name='Marieteresa' post='1058011' date='Sep 6 2006, 03:09 PM']
I wasn't Challenging anyone with my words.....I was just wondering if you guys were faced with the same situation what would you do. If the community that you were currently interested in had these policies. Would you easily accept them as sacrfice or would you look else where. I am just wanting people to seriously think about it than to give empty words such as accept it and follow Gods will. I wish I could have did a poll or something to see how many of you guys would be seriously do this if your current community had this policy.
[/quote]

If OLAM had policies like that, I would still enter, because I truly believe that is where God has called me, and would that be hard? Yes, of course, that would be extremely hard to never see my best friends again. But if God helped me, I could do it, and I know I'd be the better for it. I love my friends very, very much. It really would pain me not to see them like that... but I would trust that God would foster our friendship nonetheless, even though I don't quite understand how that works. How much I could talk and see to people at OLAM didn't determine for me whether I thought it was the right place. Because believe me, one letter home a month and letters to others at Christmas is a lot less than I ever would have picked for myself! But I believe OLAM is a fit for me, so that's ok, and I know God will help me have that less contact.

But Laura is right... we really can't play this what-if game. Our circumstances are different. OLAM is quite different from Lockport just in the sense that it's a lot more in the public eye, in a way... they have different charisms, different... they just aren't the same. It's the differences that make it "the right place" for each of us, so we can't pretend they're the same for the sake of figuring out what we would do in another's situation. Because then you aren't picturing the right vocation. The "rules" set, as someone mentioned earilier, a way of liberating us to fully live that which we are called to.

There is nothing empty about encouraging someone to follow God's will. We don't know what God's will for you is. All we're saying is that the real question is not whether you think the rules are too hard but whether God is calling you here, and that whatever God asks of you, He'll help you do it, but at the same time, your difficulty here may be a sign God is sending you that isn't the place for you.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='zunshynn' post='1058176' date='Sep 6 2006, 09:37 PM']
If OLAM had policies like that, I would still enter, because I truly believe that is where God has called me, and would that be hard? Yes, of course, that would be extremely hard to never see my best friends again. But if God helped me, I could do it, and I know I'd be the better for it. I love my friends very, very much. It really would pain me not to see them like that... but I would trust that God would foster our friendship nonetheless, even though I don't quite understand how that works. How much I could talk and see to people at OLAM didn't determine for me whether I thought it was the right place. Because believe me, one letter home a month and letters to others at Christmas is a lot less than I ever would have picked for myself! But I believe OLAM is a fit for me, so that's ok, and I know God will help me have that less contact.

But Laura is right... we really can't play this what-if game. Our circumstances are different. OLAM is quite different from Lockport just in the sense that it's a lot more in the public eye, in a way... they have different charisms, different... they just aren't the same. It's the differences that make it "the right place" for each of us, so we can't pretend they're the same for the sake of figuring out what we would do in another's situation. Because then you aren't picturing the right vocation. The "rules" set, as someone mentioned earilier, a way of liberating us to fully live that which we are called to.

There is nothing empty about encouraging someone to follow God's will. We don't know what God's will for you is. All we're saying is that the real question is not whether you think the rules are too hard but whether God is calling you here, and that whatever God asks of you, He'll help you do it, but at the same time, your difficulty here may be a sign God is sending you that isn't the place for you.


[/quote]
precisely. obviously i am in complete agreement with zunshynn...