Jesus: No Magisteriums!

[Budge]

In Matthew 23:10, Jesus says "Nec vocemini magistri: quia magister vester unus est, Christus." (Jerome's Vulgate) which means [size=5]"Neither be ye called masters; for one is your master, Christ."[/size] (Catholic Douay-Rheims)

So what does [mod]see guidelines[/mod] do?

[size=5]
It reads Jesus' statement that Christians are not to call anyone MAGISTER and creates a caste of men called a MAGISTERIUM![/size]

How much more blatantly christian can they get?

[mod]see guidelines: "specifically meant to upset or criticize another person or group of people" - L_D[/mod]

Edited September 15, 2006 by Lil Red

[Eutychus]

[quote] a caste of men called a MAGISTERIUM![/quote]

Sheesh, really?

I always thought they got that from MAGI { which is the root where we get the term MAGICIAN from } .... hmm, learn something new every day, thank you!

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Budge' post='1063169' date='Sep 15 2006, 12:37 AM']In Matthew 23:10, Jesus says "Nec vocemini magistri: quia magister vester unus est, Christus." (Jerome's Vulgate) which means [size=5]"Neither be ye called masters; for one is your master, Christ."[/size] (Catholic Douay-Rheims)

So what does the whore of Revelation do?

[size=5]It reads Jesus' statement that Christians are not to call anyone MAGISTER and creates a caste of men called a MAGISTERIUM![/size]

How much more blatantly antichristian can they get?[/quote]I guess I have to ask: how can a body of Christians exist and spread the Gospel if there is no one with any authority to teach?

This is all about seeing what you want to see. Would you call St. Paul the "whore of Revelation" because he called himself the spiritual father of those in Corinth ([url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians4.htm#v15"]1 Cor 4:15[/url])? Does this contradict the verse which immediately preceeds the above quotation([url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew23.htm#v9"]Matt 23:9[/url])?

BTW, maybe those hunting the whore of Revelation should research which city was home to Christians whose faith, as St. Paul writes, was "heralded throughout the world."

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Budge' post='1063169' date='Sep 14 2006, 10:37 PM']
In Matthew 23:10, Jesus says "Nec vocemini magistri: quia magister vester unus est, Christus." (Jerome's Vulgate) which means [size=5]"Neither be ye called masters; for one is your master, Christ."[/size] (Catholic Douay-Rheims)

So what does the whore of Revelation do?

[size=5]
It reads Jesus' statement that Christians are not to call anyone MAGISTER and creates a caste of men called a MAGISTERIUM![/size]

How much more blatantly antichristian can they get?
[/quote]
That's nothing, we've also been calling men 'father' from day one, we even have the audacity to have 'fathers' of the Church. But if you want to take the Bible really literally you have to hold that this only applies to the original language Christ was speaking so your latin translation is irrelevant. Although we still call Jewish Rabbis 'Rabbi'.

btw, which one of those whacky anti-catholic sites did you rip that off of? Just curious.

[rkwright]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1063248' date='Sep 15 2006, 01:21 AM']
But if you want to take the Bible really literally you have to hold that this only applies to the original language Christ was speaking so your latin translation is irrelevant.
[/quote]



ohh I like that response for some reason...

[Laudate_Dominum]

Oh, wait a second:

"But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. (Mt 23:8 KJV)"

Rabbi means teacher; and how many people have you called teacher in your day you antichristian heathen!?

[quote name='rkwright' post='1063257' date='Sep 15 2006, 12:28 AM']


ohh I like that response for some reason...
[/quote]
Unfortunately Budge can't take the truly literal approach on this passage or else the argument would be broken. But I still can't believe that Budge is a true Christian. I mean, a real Christian would understand that the latin 'magister', as well as the original Greek 'kathegetes', also corresponds to the English words 'commander', 'president', 'chief', 'leader', etc.. shame shame.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Budge' post='1063169' date='Sep 14 2006, 10:37 PM']
In Matthew 23:10, Jesus says "Nec vocemini magistri: quia magister vester unus est, Christus." (Jerome's Vulgate) which means [size=5]"Neither be ye called masters; for one is your master, Christ."[/size] (Catholic Douay-Rheims)[/quote]


Nice to see you using the full Holy Bible and not the gutted KJ.

[quote name='Budge' post='1063169' date='Sep 14 2006, 10:37 PM']
So what does the whore of Revelation do?[/quote]

The whore put Salvation on a Cross in Jerusalem, and rejects Him as The Christ.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1063248' date='Sep 15 2006, 02:21 AM']
That's nothing, we've also been calling men 'father' from day one, we even have the audacity to have 'fathers' of the Church. But if you want to take the Bible really literally you have to hold that this only applies to the original language Christ was speaking so your latin translation is irrelevant. Although we still call Jewish Rabbis 'Rabbi'.[/quote]Wouldn't the use of the term rabbi make modern Judaism the whore of Revelation?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' post='1063261' date='Sep 15 2006, 02:41 AM']

Unfortunately Budge can't take the truly literal approach on this passage or else the argument would be broken. But I still can't believe that Budge is a true Christian. I mean, a real Christian would understand that the latin 'magister', as well as the original Greek 'kathegetes', also corresponds to the English words 'commander', 'president', 'chief', 'leader', etc.. shame shame.
[/quote]

Budge is trying to take that approach, because she simply repeats what she has read, instead of actually understanding it.

proverbs 15:2 The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright: but the mouth of geniuses poureth out foolishness.KJV.

[Budge]

So no one has explained yet why they gave themselves a name that Jesus TAUGHT AGAINST.

Here is more that disproves the Catholic Magisterium..

Thanks for pointing this out by the way....
[quote]
[i]I mean, a real Christian would understand that the latin 'magister', as well as the original Greek 'kathegetes',[u] also corresponds to the English words 'commander', 'president', 'chief', 'leader', etc..[/u] shame shame.[/i][/quote]
[size=5]
~{Matt.20:12}~
Jesus called them unto him, and said,
Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles
exercise dominion over them,
and they that are great
exercise authority upon them.
[font="Arial Black"]
26 But it shall not be so among you[/font][/size]

Edited September 15, 2006 by Budge

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1063359' date='Sep 15 2006, 10:47 AM']
So no one has explained yet why they gave themselves a name that Jesus TAUGHT AGAINST.

Here is more that disproves the Catholic Magisterium..

Thanks for pointing this out by the way....

[size=5]
~{Matt.20:12}~

26 But it shall not be so among you[/font][/size]
[/quote]

I love how you leave out WHOLE sections and context when you quote things.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

I just want to say...the plural is "magisteria." Please learn Latin.

[Budge]

[quote]I love how you leave out WHOLE sections and context when you quote things.[/quote]

You left out what you think I left out.

[cmotherofpirl]

Mathhew 20:12 is about the laborers in the vineyard, and verse 12 has nothing to do with this discussion.
Verses 20-28 are when mom of James and John asks if her sons can sit on the left and right hand of Jesus. When the others hear about it, they are rightly ticked off, because they are asking to be in charge, and Jesus replies to them:
22 And Jesus answering, said: You know not what you ask. Can you drink the chalice that I shall drink? They say to him: We can. 23 He saith to them: My chalice indeed you shall drink; but to sit on my right or left hand, is not mine to give to you, but to them for whom it is prepared by my Father. 25 But Jesus called them to him, and said: You know that the princes of the Gentiles lord it over them; and they that are the greater, exercise power upon them.
26 It shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be the greater among you, let him be your minister: 27 And he that will be first among you, shall be your servant. 28 Even as the Son of man is not come to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a redemption for many.

Nowhere does this say that someone isn't in charge, but that the choice is up to the Father.

[Theoketos]

Jesus Christ is the Truth is the Teacher (Jn 14:6). He is ABSOLUTELY unique and unparalled, so that no other authority can or should claim to be his authority.


"Accordingly, the whole of Christ's life was a continual teaching: His silences, His miracles, His gestures, His prayer, His love for people, His special affection for the little and the poor, His acceptance of the total sacrifice on the cross for the redemption of the world, and His resurrection are the actualization of His word and the fulfillment of revelation. Hence for Christians the crucifix is one of the most sublime and popular images of Christ the Teacher."

Further, "These considerations follow in the wake of the great traditions of the Church and they all strengthen our fervor with regard to Christ, the Teacher who reveals God to man and man to himself, the Teacher who saves, sanctifies and guides, who lives, who speaks, rouses, moves, redresses, judges, forgives, and goes with us day by day on the path of history, the Teacher who comes and will come in glory." Catechesi Tradendi 9


A careful examination of the context of Matthew 23 shows that Jesus didn’t intend for his words here to be understood literally. The whole passage reads, "But you are not to be called ‘rabbi,’ for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called ‘masters,’ for you have one master, the Christ" (Matt. 23:8–10).

So the magesterium does not call it self the one teacher, but a teacher.

Thanks Budge for trying to teach the truth with love and Charity. May we all come to the Truth.

[cmotherofpirl]

St Paul also uses the concept of "father"
1 Cor 4
14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.

15 For though ye have ten thousand instructers in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

[Theoketos]

Jesus Christ is the Truth is the Teacher (Jn 14:6). He is ABSOLUTELY unique and unparalled, so that no other authority can or should claim to be his authority.


"Accordingly, the whole of Christ's life was a continual teaching: His silences, His miracles, His gestures, His prayer, His love for people, His special affection for the little and the poor, His acceptance of the total sacrifice on the cross for the redemption of the world, and His resurrection are the actualization of His word and the fulfillment of revelation. Hence for Christians the crucifix is one of the most sublime and popular images of Christ the Teacher."

Further, "These considerations follow in the wake of the great traditions of the Church and they all strengthen our fervor with regard to Christ, the Teacher who reveals God to man and man to himself, the Teacher who saves, sanctifies and guides, who lives, who speaks, rouses, moves, redresses, judges, forgives, and goes with us day by day on the path of history, the Teacher who comes and will come in glory." Catechesi Tradendi 9


A careful examination of the context of Matthew 23 shows that Jesus didn’t intend for his words here to be understood literally. The whole passage reads, "But you are not to be called ‘rabbi,’ for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called ‘masters,’ for you have one master, the Christ" (Matt. 23:8–10).

So the magesterium does not call it self the one teacher, but a teacher.

Thanks Budge for trying to teach the truth with love and Charity. May we all come to the Truth.

[Eutychus]

[quote]But if you want to take the Bible really literally you have to hold that this only applies to the original language Christ was speaking so your latin translation is irrelevant. [/quote]

Well, that one takes the cake as the MOST ORIGINAL version of WHY a Catholic can disregard what the bible teaches.

If you ain't doing it in GREEK, it is FINE WITH GOD!

A classic!

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Raphael' post='1063368' date='Sep 15 2006, 09:56 AM']
I just want to say...the plural is "magisteria." Please learn Latin.
[/quote]
I sooooo knew that you were going to post that.

[quote name='Eutychus' post='1063604' date='Sep 15 2006, 04:04 PM']
Well, that one takes the cake as the MOST ORIGINAL version of WHY a Catholic can disregard what the bible teaches.

If you ain't doing it in GREEK, it is FINE WITH GOD!

A classic!
[/quote]
If it's original how can it be a classic?