Lets Chat About Sin

[N/A Gone]

dunno if this should be on Trans or Debate, but my intentions are the safe harbour of the Church's teachings. Not to openly debate the issue; but to be taught how to defend it.

What is sin? DOes it matter after the cross? In the protestant understanding at the point of baptism they receive grace, which covers there sin. Sin is no longer an issue for a "saved" christian. Thus no need for confession, penance. We try to be better people, but our actions dont have anything to do with our salvation.


How do I argue the Church's teachings? How do I show that it is an ontological change not a covering of grace?

In Paul (rom 7) he speaks of struggling with sin; but not in fear of his own salvation.

[jswranch]

Sin is departing from the will of God.

It does matter. You can commit a sin after being saved (baptized) such that you lose your salvation.

THe protestant understanding depends really on the beliefs of the local pastor or individual. They are so varried, they cannot pinned down as a group.

The best way to argue the Church's position is to reply with scripture. The defense directory will also help get you started.

Later I will look up some scriptures for you.

[thessalonian]

I never really get a clear answer out of them in this regard. They don't understand grace, that is for sure. If all is grace then grace had to be active in our lives before we came to Christianity, moving us toward it, or some portion of our salvation was not by God. Grace had to be involved in the people that brought us in to the world. Our parents and those who went before them or we are not saved totally by grace. Most certainly our lives are a part of our salvation. The food that keeps us alive has to be provided by grace. There are many different types of grace and this is what they don't understand. For them it seems grace is just God being nice.

They do in general believe in sanctification which also seems problematic to me. Do they believe that we can sanctify ourselves or participate in our own sanctification? Some I think would say yes. Many would ignore the question. It shows that grace has to be active after our becoming "saved".

A third problem I see them getting is that God works through his creation. He works through all to the salvatoin of his saints. This is grace as well.

[Laudate_Dominum]

trolling:

come play the star trek trivia game! [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=57612&hl="]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...c=57612&hl=[/url]

[N/A Gone]

guess what we talked about in class today...here is my notes

catholics seem to take one verse and use it out of context. let's look at 1 john 5:17 in context.

13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.

16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

18We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him. 19We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. 20We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

21Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.

okay, so we already know other parts of scripture say that the wages of sin is death, etc. this one adds that ALL wrongdoing is sin. but it separates sin into two categories: a) the DOESN'T lead ot death and b) that DOES lead to death.

scripture never says "murder leads to death! but a little white lie doesn't!" it never separates sin in that way. it separates sin only in two ways a) sin that HAS been forgiven, that is, DOESN'T lead to death and b) sin that HASN'T been forgiven, that is DOES lead to death.

and the beautiful thing? if we ask for forgiveness (remembering that God knows if we're sincere or not), we are promised to receive it.

2 chronicles 7:14

14 if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

jeremiah 31:34 "....declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

hebrews 8: 10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."[c]

13By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.