Why Does The Pope Respect Islam?

[Aloysius]

yes, the muslims are WRONG

the muslims are WRONG when they say there is only One God
the muslims are WRONG when they say the God of Abraham is the True God
the muslims are WRONG when they say Jesus will come back at the end of the world and fight the anti-Christ

oh wait... I forgot... those are the things they are RIGHT about... silly me

the muslims ARE wrong about mohammad being God's messenger
the muslims ARE wrong about there not being a Trinity of Persons in God
the muslims ARE wrong about Jesus not being God
the muslims ARE wrong about reason being subject to the temperments of allah
the muslims ARE wrong about a great number of things...

but if a muslim says the earth is round, the earth does not cease to be round. if a muslim says there is one God, then there is one God. and I can say "I respect you, mr. muslim, for being so scientific as to discover the roundness of the earth, bravo!" I have not given any credence to the falshoods mohammad spoke.. and if i say "I respect you, mr. muslim, for being so philosophically right as to understand that there must be only one God" I have not betrayed my religion.

again,
if anyone says "I want to believe in the God of Abraham", then a Christian ought to say "okay, let me tell you about who He is..." not "well, since you do not yet truly know Him, then I have no basis to begin with you, continue worshipping your pagan god"

if anyone says "I believe in the God of Abraham, he is allah and mohammad is his messenger" then a Christian ought to say "I too believe in the God of Abraham, but He does not have many of the attributes that are given to your allah, he is far different from your allah, and mohammad may have been a messenger which brought to you respect for the God of Abraham but his message was corrupt."

[dUSt]

[quote name='Budge' post='1072741' date='Sep 23 2006, 12:30 PM']
How can you respect views you dont agree with?
[/quote]
Oh my goodness, I was hoping it didn't have to come down to this. I feel like such a jerk treating you like a grade schooler, but what else am I to do? You've turned this from a theological debate to an English language debate. I've narrowed it down and highlighted the definitions that would apply to the context the pope used the word in.

[b]re‧spect[/b] [i]–noun[/i]
3. esteem for or a [b]sense of the worth or excellence of a person[/b], a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability: I have great respect for her judgment.
4. deference to a right, privilege, privileged position, or someone or something considered to have certain rights or privileges; proper acceptance or [b]courtesy; acknowledgment: [/b] respect for a suspect's right to counsel; to show respect for the flag; respect for the elderly.
6. respects, [b]a formal expression or gesture of greeting, esteem, or friendship:[/b] Give my respects to your parents.

When the pope used the term "respect", he used it to portray a common courtesy, a respect of the [b]person[/b], not the views. Specifically, he said "mutual respect":

[i]"I hope this serves to appease hearts and to clarify the true meaning of my address, which in its totality was and is an invitation to frank and sincere dialogue, with mutual respect."[/i]

Regardless of any of that, Budge, [b]please[/b] show me where "respect" means "agree". Apparently, your habit of making things up extends to the English definitions of words as well?

God bless.

[Winchester]

Budge's signature should include a hydra......as soon as one thread is lopped off, more grow in its place.

[Budge]

Actually people who get ticked off simply for someone disagreeing with them over and over, can talk all they want about respecting the people of divergent views, but it really isnt happening...

In fact often times those who preach tolerance the most often, betray any semblance of practicing what they preach as they scream, bigot, hater, liar at everyone who dares to disagree with them, even sincerely.

Also I was discussing this comment..."In this way, the Holy Father sought to make clear his "deep respect for the great religions"

I dont respect the religion of Islam, that was my point, I believe it along with others will lead millions of people to hell.




[quote]Regardless of any of that, Budge, please show me where "respect" means "agree".[/quote]

When a person says...

I RESPECT THE RELIGION OF ISLAM...

They see it as another religion that leads to god, because if they truly believe it led people to hell, they wouldnt say such a thing.

They see it as a religion at least for some as worthy of practice.

People dont respect things they disagree with.

[Winchester]

Wow, you define what people mean, even when they explain what they mean. One of the starting points in debate is agreeing on usage and explaining usage. If you're going to ignore those explanations, then there's just no point talking to you.

[Cam42]

Here is what the Church teaches:

[quote name='CCC #841']The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."[/quote]
[i]Lumen Gentium 16; cf. Nostra Aetate 3[/i]

[quote name='CCC #843']The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."[/quote]
[i]LG 16; cf. NA 2; EN 53[/i]

[quote]In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them:

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.[/quote]
[i]LG 16; cf. Rom 1:21, 25[/i]

and from the Compendium:

[quote name='CCCC #170']What is the bond that exists between the Catholic Church and non-Christian religions?

There is a bond between all peoples which comes especially from the common origin and end of the entire human race. The Catholic Church recognizes that whatever is good or true in other religions comes from God and is a reflection of his truth. As such it can prepare for the acceptance of the Gospel and act as a stimulus toward the unity of humanity in the Church of Christ.[/quote]

Pretty well sums up the view of the Church and why the Church has respect for Islam. However, we must understand that the understanding of respect for a religion doesn't necessarily condone the actions of the adherents to said religion. So, while Islam has noble and good aspects to it, the persons who accept it are fallen and sinful and can/do misinterpret it to believe it as something other than what it was intended. Not unlike Protestantism, in certain aspects.

[avemaria40]

[quote name='Budge' post='1073631' date='Sep 24 2006, 10:39 AM']
People dont respect things they disagree with.
[/quote]

No but they should respect the people they disagree with.

[Budge]

I have no problem respecting the people.

Muslim people deserve to hear the true gospel as much as any one else.

The thing that makes me so sad, is how many are being denied that gospel because of the false message of interfaithism.

[avemaria40]

I respect any good influence a faith has on someone's life (ie being a good person, having integrity, recognizing that God alone is to be worshiped, morality, etc.) however there is nothing more I want to do than spread the gospel of Jesus Christ because He has every good thing to offer, mainly our salvation. I think that's what the Pope has in mind when he says he respects Islam, he respects the good things about it.

All religions have a portion of the Truth, Christianity has it in full.

Edited September 24, 2006 by avemaria40

[Budge]

[quote]
I respect any good influence a faith has on someone's life (ie being a good person, having integrity, recognizing that God alone is to be worshiped, morality, etc.) however there is nothing more I want to do than spread the gospel of Jesus Christ because He has every good thing to offer, mainly our salvation. I think that's what the Pope has in mind when he says he respects Islam, he respects the good things about it.

All religions have a portion of the Truth, Christianity has it in full.[/quote]

This is where Catholicism is wrong.

False religions bring error and false spirits into one's life.

False religions do not have a good influence on someone's life but teach bondage. Muslims are suffering from their own works based religion that teaches disrespect of women, and war against those who do not beleive the way they do.

Where is the impetus to win the world for Christ when you believe that false religions are half true and can bring someone to God?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1073712' date='Sep 24 2006, 01:51 PM']
This is where Catholicism is wrong.

False religions bring error and false spirits into one's life.

False religions do not have a good influence on someone's life but teach bondage. Muslims are suffering from their own works based religion that teaches disrespect of women, and war against those who do not beleive the way they do.

Where is the impetus to win the world for Christ when you believe that false religions are half true and can bring someone to God?
[/quote]
False religions are not entirely false. None of them are. Satan uses them to deceive, certainly, but Satan knows that truth must be mixed with lies if the lies are to be believed. Even Satanism has some truth, in as much as it acknowledges that Satan exists and that he hates God.

Each religion has some amount of truth to it and varying amounts of falsehood, except Catholicism. Catholicism has no falsehood.

[Budge]

[quote]False religions are not entirely false. None of them are. Satan uses them to deceive, certainly, but Satan knows that truth must be mixed with lies if the lies are to be believed. [size=5]Even Satanism has some truth[/size], in as much as it acknowledges that Satan exists and that he hates God.

Each religion has some amount of truth to it and varying amounts of falsehood, except Catholicism. Catholicism has no falsehood.[/quote]

Satan works by mixing lies with truth.

Why does Catholicism deny this constantly praising the TRUTHS of false religions.

Even Satanism has some truth???

You have GOT to be KIDDING ME.



You need to figure out what truth really is. It doesnt mean falsehoods and truth mixed together.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1073766' date='Sep 24 2006, 02:35 PM']
Satan works by mixing lies with truth.

Why does Catholicism deny this constantly praising the TRUTHS of false religions.

Even Satanism has some truth???

You have GOT to be KIDDING ME.



You need to figure out what truth really is. It doesnt mean falsehoods and truth mixed together.
[/quote]

Budge, Satanism acknowledges that Satan exists. That's a truth, isn't it? Would you rather say that Satan doesn't exist? That would put you in league with him.

Catholicism praises the truths of other religions because she wants to point out the truth and condemn the falsehoods, thus converting them.

Truth means truth. I know that it doesn't mean falsehoods and truth mixed together. In fact, that's the exact opposite of what I said.

Again, you've refused to follow dUSt's formatting rules in your text.

[Budge]

Im sorry but you have put yourself in league with Satan for speaking of the truths of Satanism.

Satan mixes truths and lies.

So far you have called Jesus Christ a sinner, said that early Christians payed allegiance to the emperors of Rome and now you are defending Satanism even by saying it has TRUTH.

You are a very confused person and I feel alarmed and very sorry for you.

So now you are going to defend the TRUTH of Satanism to me!!!!???



You are so lost....

[musturde]

[quote name='Budge' post='1073789' date='Sep 24 2006, 01:59 PM']
Im sorry but you have put yourself in league with Satan for speaking of the truths of Satanism.

Satan mixes truths and lies.

So far you have called Jesus Christ a sinner, said that early Christians payed allegiance to the emperors of Rome and now you are defending Satanism even by saying it has TRUTH.

You are a very confused person and I feel alarmed and very sorry for you.

So now you are going to defend the TRUTH of Satanism to me!!!!???



You are so lost....


[/quote]

Are you just doing this to avoid answering him? It sure looks like it. The only thing he said was true about Satanism is that there is a satan and he hates God. Can you deny that?

[Cam42]

[quote name='musturde' post='1073895' date='Sep 24 2006, 02:57 PM']
Are you just doing this to avoid answering him? It sure looks like it. The only thing he said was true about Satanism is that there is a satan and he hates God. Can you deny that?
[/quote]

I don't think so. Honestly, I think that she doesn't understand what Raph is trying to do. This is what happens when one who knows or has formally studied theology/philosophy enters into a discussion with what I call "an armchair."

(Armchair = One who does personal study with no formal understanding of theological thought.)

The same thing has happened since my humble return. I have taken my cues from Raph's posts and Budge's as well and it is clear the lack of Sacred Theological/Sacred Scriptural understanding.

Praise God for Raphael.

[Budge]

I think things get scary when Catholics start defending the truths of Satanism.

This isnt the first time its happened to me, it shows utter confusion.

But why should I be surprised Islam is defended and every other false religion.

If Catholic THEOLOGY and armchair philosophies involve discussing the truths of SATANISM...

I refuse to accept that, sorry. I think it is evil and calling evil good, something else discussed in Gods Word.
[size=4]
1Cr 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, {THEOLOGIANS WHO LOOK FOR TRUTH IN SATANISM} that they are vain.[/size]

[Winchester]

Actually, to put too fine a point on it, only what is true in a false religion brings one to God. What is true is either directly or indirectly revealed by God.

I missed those brackets in the Bible. Maybe it's a KJV thing.

No one is saying to accept whati s not true, only accept what is true and laud it. If anyone is confused here, it is you.

[Budge]

[quote] only accept what is true and laud it.[/quote]

[mod]Edited by -- IcePrincess -- deliberate misleading/intellectual dishonesty [/mod]
you poor folks are really out to lunch on this one...

[CatholicCid]

So Satan doesn't exist?
That is your claim.