Not All Pentecostals Fundamentalists

[Justified Saint]

Had a pleasant and lengthy discussion with a Pentecostal pastor today. Even with the poor witness that some give the group (you know who ), I knew there was much more to be said for their character and beliefs. I was surprised how integral Christian unity and interfaith dialogue are to the Pentecostal movement.

I am looking forward to observing one of their services (for a class). What is the lesson to be learned? Basically if someone messes up someone else's beliefs so bad, they might not even have a clue about their own!

[Budge]

[quote] I was surprised how integral Christian unity and interfaith dialogue are to the Pentecostal movement.[/quote]

As I said elsewhere ALL areas of CHRISTIANDOM, are falling prey to Revelation 17 "unity". It is the great falling away. Even the Southern Baptists are joining more and more with Rome. American Baptists are totally ecumenical and more from other branches are joining up.

[NewReformation]

[quote name='Budge' post='1078528' date='Sep 28 2006, 09:46 PM']
As I said elsewhere ALL areas of CHRISTIANDOM, are falling prey to Revelation 17 "unity". It is the great falling away. [b]Even the Southern Baptists are joining more and more with Rome. [/b]American Baptists are totally ecumenical and more from other branches are joining up.
[/quote]
Back that assertation up please.

[Budge]

Just a note, I do believe there are many saved Christians in the SBC denomination, however there are many practices which are of concern.

[url="http://www.usccb.org/seia/sbrctounderstandeachother1989.shtml"] LINK[/url]

[url="http://www.ncccusa.org/about/cctusa.html"]PARTICIPANT OF CHRISTIAN CHURCHES TOGETHER[/url]
[quote]Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr., serves as the ninth president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary-the flagship school of the Southern Baptist Convention and one of the largest seminaries in the world.[/quote]

[url="http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/whyi.htm"]WHY I AM NOT A SOUTHERN BAPTIST[/url]

[quote]
[b]The Southern Baptist Convention also associates in ecumenical ventures in its close association with ecumenical evangelistic crusades sponsored by Billy Graham, Luis Palau, and others.[/b] Southern Baptist Theological Seminary has a course entitled Christian Life and Witness, which trains students in crusade counseling techniques. On May 3, 2001, the Baptist Press ran an article entitled “Hundreds of Southern Students Prepare for Graham Crusade.” R. Albert Mohler, Jr., President of Southern Seminary, served as the chairman of Graham’s crusade. He told the Baptist Press, “Nothing else has brought together the kind of ethnic and racial and denominational inclusivity as is represented in this crusade; nothing in my experience and nothing in the recent history of Louisville has brought together such a group of committed Christians for one purpose” [emphasis added]. In fact, Southern Seminary proudly hosts the Billy Graham School of Missions, Evangelism and Church Growth.
[b]
Thus even the allegedly conservative Southern Baptist seminaries at the national level are ecumenical. Roman Catholic priest Richard John Neuhaus, co-author of Evangelicals and Catholics Together, was scheduled to speak at Beeson Divinity School, October 2-3, 2001. Timothy George, Dean of Beeson, is a signer of Evangelicals & Catholics Together II. George was scheduled to join Albert Mohler, President of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, to speak at “a meeting of Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox Christians” on November 8-10, 2001, at the University of St. Mary of the Lake, Mundelein, Illinois. Other speakers included Metropolitan Maximos, Greek Orthodox bishop, and James Hitchcock, professor at Roman Catholic St. Louis University (The Fundamentalist Digest, July-August 2001, p. 4).[/b] Eugene Lowery, professor at United Methodist Saint Paul School of Theology in Kansas City, Missouri, was a guest lecturer at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in February 2001. That same month, Southwestern featured guest lecturer Peter Toon, executive president of the Prayer Book Society for the wretchedly apostate Episcopal Church. We could list hundreds of other examples of ecumenical ventures involving SBC congregations and schools.
[b]
Southern Baptist churches, colleges, and seminaries do nothing to warn their students about the great dangers of ecumenical evangelism. They do not explain that Billy Graham has turned thousands of converts over to Roman Catholic and modernistic churches. They do not carry books in their bookstores that warn about ecumenical ventures such as this and that document New Evangelical compromise.[/b]

The deeply compromised, ecumenical nature of the Southern Baptist Convention was most recently seen in its support for Mel Gibson and his R-rated Roman Catholic film The Passion of the Christ. Gibson based his movie partly on Catholic mystic Anne-Catherine Emmerich’s “visions,” which are recorded in the book “The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ.” Gibson said, “She supplied me with stuff I never would have thought of.” Gibson, who is a Roman Catholic, borrowed extra-biblical scenes such as Peter confessing to Mary, Mary appealing to Pilate’s wife to protect Jesus, Mary wiping up Jesus’ blood with cloths provided by Pilate’s wife, and Mary saying to Jesus, “Flesh of my flesh and heart of my heart, let me die with you.” Pope John Paul II is scheduled to beatify Emmerich in a ceremony at the Vatican on October 3. Mel Gibson prays to Mary and believes in salvation through the Catholic sacraments; he accepts the Council of Trent as authoritative, even though it hurled 125 anathemas or curses at those who accept the Bible alone as the Word of God and who believe that salvation is by God’s grace alone without works or sacraments. Gibson stated in an interview that he does not believe that people can go to heaven apart from the Roman Catholic Church.[/quote]

[NewReformation]

[quote name='Budge' post='1078695' date='Sep 28 2006, 11:47 PM']
Just a note, I do believe there are many saved Christians in the SBC denomination, however there are many practices which are of concern.

[url="http://www.usccb.org/seia/sbrctounderstandeachother1989.shtml"] LINK[/url]

[url="http://www.ncccusa.org/about/cctusa.html"]PARTICIPANT OF CHRISTIAN CHURCHES TOGETHER[/url]
[url="http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/whyi.htm"]WHY I AM NOT A SOUTHERN BAPTIST[/url]
[/quote]

Sorry, I don't read anything by David Cloud. You could try writing your own thoughts on the matter. Thanks.

Edited September 29, 2006 by NewReformation

[goldenchild17]

[quote name='NewReformation' post='1078698' date='Sep 28 2006, 11:50 PM']
Sorry, I don't read anything by David Cloud. You could try writing your own thoughts on the matter. Thanks.
[/quote]

Short and sweet. Love it .

[Budge]

Why not?

Ive read some of your favorites like Noll.

Refusing to read or look well, seems kind of CLOSED DOWN to me.

[img]http://www.magicgoods.com/BlindDriveBag.jpg[/img]

Edited September 29, 2006 by Budge

[NewReformation]

[quote name='Budge' post='1078702' date='Sep 28 2006, 11:53 PM']
Why not?

Ive read some of your favorites like Noll.

Refusing to read or look well, seems kind of CLOSED DOWN to me.

[img]http://www.magicgoods.com/BlindDriveBag.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Who is Noll?

I've read Cloud's stuff before. He pretty much believes that anybody who doesn't believe just like him is either a heretic, unsaved, backslidden, or what-have-you. I've also read several articles on his website that post out and out falsehoods. So, I don't read anything he says, because he's an accuser of the brethren.

[Counter-Reformer]

It's nice to know that protestantism still devours itself. Considering that said Churches that Budge has named to an extent still adhere to thier confessions of Westminster, Augsburg, etc, and still adhere to Sola Scriptura and Sola Fidei. Not even the original Lutherans and Reformed Churches adhered to Sola Scriptura and Sola Fidei. I guess Martin Luther and his contempiraries are in hell for adhering to the Confessions of Dortmund, Augsburg or the Confessions of Westminster. Luther himself saw the necessity of Paedo-baptism, the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Euchrast and liturgical forms of worship, as did the Calvinists.

C.S. Lewis in his conversion to Christianity, saw the necessity of high sacramentalism and he himself rejected the errors of of Calvinism. Infact, Lewis in Both the Problem of Pain and Mere Christianity unapologetically rips into the false notions of Calvinism and ofg faith that does not have the light oif reason behind it. Nearly 100 years before, John Wesely, went through the same type of vilification by Calvinists in his attempt to reform the Church of England.

The Only True Christians in Budge's eyes are those who are outright 5 point calvinism and a fundamentalist idea of what sola scriptura is this wouldn't include most of traditional and liturgical protestantism. Martin Luther, if he were alive would be be decrying Budge not for her Anti-catholcism but for her repudiations of Luther's writings and teachings. The Same teacxhings that ironically gave the world Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide.

Edited September 29, 2006 by Counter-Reformer

[Justified Saint]

[quote name='Budge' post='1078528' date='Sep 28 2006, 07:46 PM']
As I said elsewhere ALL areas of CHRISTIANDOM, are falling prey to Revelation 17 "unity". It is the great falling away. Even the Southern Baptists are joining more and more with Rome. American Baptists are totally ecumenical and more from other branches are joining up.
[/quote]

Praise the Lord! Christians all over are starting to throw off the chains of idolatry and fundamentalism. Soon I suspect Budge will be standing on one side all by her lonesome -- and I think that would just make her happier.

[Budge]

I am not a Calvinist. Where do you folks come up with this stuff?

You all must not even have a clue what a Calvinist even is!

Someone must have told you all Baptists are Calvinists or something.



[quote]
I've read Cloud's stuff before. He pretty much believes that anybody who doesn't believe just like him is either a heretic, unsaved, backslidden, or what-have-you. I've also read several articles on his website that post out and out falsehoods. So, I don't read anything he says, because he's an accuser of the brethren.[/quote]

So youve put Cloud on your own personal INDEX of banned books?

[NewReformation]

[quote name='Budge' post='1078996' date='Sep 29 2006, 09:35 AM']


So youve put Cloud on your own personal INDEX of banned books?
[/quote]
Huh?