The Discalced Carmelite Nuns - 1990 & 1991 Constitutions

[Laudem Gloriae]

Actually, here's an old article on the Morristown Carmel's problem at [url="http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE3DC1039F930A25753C1A96E948260"]http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...753C1A96E948260[/url] .

I they have settled the problems and are a 1990's Carmel.

[Guest Perpetualove]

Thank you so much. This brings up another question, so I will start another thread! Thanks, Laudem!

[Chiquitunga]

Also, the Discalced Carmelite Order has a new website now: http://www.discalcedcarmel.com/ For the addresses of the nuns, the monasteries under the 1990 Constitutions have a little asterisk next to their name. All of them are marked correctly this time, only Morristown again is marked, so I wonder if possibly they did switch over to the 1990's recently.

Hi! I just wanted to add, yes, the Morristown, NJ Carmel is under the 1990s. They switched from the 1991s, but I'm not sure when. Also, I had the first post in this thread edited way back early last year to read more like a history book, with more links, etc - so thus, the thread doesn't exactly flow right at the beginning - just something I thought I'd note here. It probably would have been better if I posted this in a blog or something, so I could edit it any time or add more information, etc. One thing I really wanted to correct was ..
 

The Fractured Face of Carmel article is written with a negative view on the 1990s. But yeah, it does say in the Time article that the 1581 Constitutions were written by Carmelite priests a year before St. Teresa died.

Nope, the 1581 Constitutions are definitely written by St. Teresa herself, just revised by the friars/her spiritual director, as I believe all of her writings were. These are the Constitutions she referred to at her death.

Finally, I wanted to add the new site of the Carmel of the Holy Spirit in England, http://www.kirkedge.org.uk/ They look really beautiful! God bless!

[ruso]

The number of nuns who follow the constitutions of 1991, around the world, is of 9857 in 756 convents. Of the 1990, they are 1856 in 126 convents. According to the pontifical yearbook of 2007.
In Spain, We call "Maravillosas" to follow the constitutions of 1990, by the Mother Maravillas, a appropriate name, maravillosas mean wonderful.
I speak of Spain, and say that without doubt, those who most influenced the relaxation of Carmel, were the Carmelite friars, some very liberalized by here. Some interpreted the intervention of Pope John Paul II as a "coup of state" and i know of nuns8of 1991) who say that prioresses of the maravillosasl(1990), failed to read the constitutions of 1990 to your nuns, a very serious accusation.
In the USA there 60 Carmels, in Spain 147, more of the "Maravillosas", which no longer depend on the Carmelite order.

Carmelites "Maravillosas", constitutions of 1990

[img]http://www.ocd.pcn.net/Lucia_Saraiva.jpg[/img]


Carmelites constitutios of 1991

[img]http://www.carmelodaimiel.org/daimiel/imagenes/2.jpg[/img]

Edited August 21, 2008 by ruso

[RosaMystica]

Wow...what a difference!

[VeniteAdoremus]

[quote name='MandyKhatoon' post='1634209' date='Aug 22 2008, 06:58 AM']Wow...what a difference![/quote]

Indeed...

Although I like them both. The 1991's style is very sleek and simple.

[RosaMystica]

[quote name='VeniteAdoremus' post='1634412' date='Aug 22 2008, 04:53 AM']Indeed...

Although I like them both. The 1991's style is very sleek and simple.[/quote]

I agree, the 1991's style is very sleek and simple, but at the same time I'm awed by the beauty of the traditional style habit. Think about the great carmelite saints: St. Teresa of Avila, St. Therese of Lisieux, St. Edith Stein, St. Teresa Margaret, Blessed Elizabeth of the Trinity, and all the others. I mean, that's the same type of habit they wore! If it was my vocation to be a carmelite nun, I would choose a convent that still has the traditional carmelite habit so to wear the same habit as the great carmelite saints. Of course I wouldn't choose a convent solely on the habit but it would be a big plus!

[ruso]

[quote name='ruso' post='1633387' date='Aug 21 2008, 10:47 AM']The number of nuns who follow the constitutions of 1991, around the world, is of 9857 in 756 convents. Of the 1990, they are 1856 in 126 convents. According to the pontifical yearbook of 2007.
In Spain, We call "Maravillosas" to follow the constitutions of 1990, by the Mother Maravillas, a appropriate name, maravillosas mean wonderful.
I speak of Spain, and say that without doubt, those who most influenced the relaxation of Carmel, were the Carmelite friars, some very liberalized by here. Some interpreted the intervention of Pope John Paul II as a "coup of state" and i know of nuns8of 1991) who say that prioresses of the maravillosasl(1990), failed to read the constitutions of 1990 to your nuns, a very serious accusation.
In the USA there 60 Carmels, in Spain 147, more of the "Maravillosas", which no longer depend on the Carmelite order.

Carmelites "Maravillosas", constitutions of 1990

[img]http://www.ocd.pcn.net/Lucia_Saraiva.jpg[/img]


Carmelites constitutios of 1991

[img]http://www.carmelodaimiel.org/daimiel/imagenes/2.jpg[/img][/quote]

The fact is that I am wrong, the two communities remain the constitutions of 1991. Although the first are more traditional, the first is the community of Sister Lucia, the girl of Fatima aparitions.
Even so the style is as I said, almost all of 1991 have changed the habit, but the basic similarity.
This is the majority stile of the nuns of 1991 constitutions.

[img]http://www.carmeloaltea.org/maricarmen/DSC04657.JPG[/img]

[Saint Therese]

[url="http://carmelitesofeldridge.org/news.html"]picture[/url]
This is the Prioress of a Carmel.

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='ruso' post='1633387' date='Aug 21 2008, 03:47 AM']The number of nuns who follow the constitutions of 1991, around the world, is of 9857 in 756 convents. Of the 1990, they are 1856 in 126 convents. According to the pontifical yearbook of 2007.
In Spain, We call "Maravillosas" to follow the constitutions of 1990, by the Mother Maravillas, a appropriate name, maravillosas mean wonderful.
I speak of Spain, and say that without doubt, those who most influenced the relaxation of Carmel, were the Carmelite friars, some very liberalized by here. Some interpreted the intervention of Pope John Paul II as a "coup of state" and i know of nuns8of 1991) who say that prioresses of the maravillosasl(1990), failed to read the constitutions of 1990 to your nuns, a very serious accusation.
In the USA there 60 Carmels, in Spain 147, more of the "Maravillosas", which no longer depend on the Carmelite order.

Carmelites "Maravillosas", constitutions of 1990

[img]http://www.ocd.pcn.net/Lucia_Saraiva.jpg[/img][/quote]

I was going to ask if that was Sr. Lucia, but I figured the community you probably posted of was in Spain and she was in Portugal

That is interesting that Sr. Lucia was in a traditional 1991 Carmel. Thanks for posting the pictures. They are lovely. Where did you find the picture of the Carmel of Sr. Lucia?

[ruso]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1635114' date='Aug 23 2008, 03:18 AM']I was going to ask if that was Sr. Lucia, but I figured the community you probably posted of was in Spain and she was in Portugal

That is interesting that Sr. Lucia was in a traditional 1991 Carmel. Thanks for posting the pictures. They are lovely. Where did you find the picture of the Carmel of Sr. Lucia?[/quote]
Never said that the nuns were Spanish , although I could not find any photo you know they are safe nuns "Maravillosas".
I found the photo in the international site of the Discalceds Carmelites Order. A visit of a nuns of my province to Sor Lucia in the video.

[url="http://www.ocd.pcn.net/Lucia_Ave.htm"]http://www.ocd.pcn.net/Lucia_Ave.htm[/url]

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='ruso' post='1635177' date='Aug 22 2008, 09:46 PM']Never said that the nuns were Spanish , although I could not find any photo you know they are safe nuns "Maravillosas".
I found the photo in the international site of the Discalceds Carmelites Order. A visit of a nuns of my province to Sor Lucia in the video.

[url="http://www.ocd.pcn.net/Lucia_Ave.htm"]http://www.ocd.pcn.net/Lucia_Ave.htm[/url][/quote]

I assume things for I don't know what reasons oh so often, so that is probably what happen with me thinking they were spanish carmelites. Just ignore my silliness.

Are there photos of any of the "Maravaillosas" ? It seems like I don't see photos often of them... they seem much more hidden and when there are photos you don't see the sisters' faces. I understand why this is, but I am still wondering if perhaps there are any out there.

Thanks for the link.

[truthfinder]

Just wanted to say something about Carmelite monasteries in Canada. There are of at least three that I know of. Two are of the 1991 constitutions. One of which wears a modified habit. The other is a 1990 constitution monastery. They wear full habits and got too full and they founded a monastery at the other end of the country. I have met them. This new foundation still wears the traditional habit, has a wooden grille, has a cover for their grille in the chapel. But, they are 1991 constitutions. As far as I can tell, they are probably just as strict as their founding monastery. Please pray for them, as there is eight nuns, one just died, who are in this little house they call a monastery. Two are junior professed, one of which is going to profess her solemn vows in a couple months. Please pray for their building of a new monastery, they REALLY need it.
God Bless

[RosaMystica]

[quote name='truthfinder' post='1635298' date='Aug 23 2008, 12:53 AM']Just wanted to say something about Carmelite monasteries in Canada. There are of at least three that I know of. Two are of the 1991 constitutions. One of which wears a modified habit. The other is a 1990 constitution monastery. They wear full habits and got too full and they founded a monastery at the other end of the country. I have met them. This new foundation still wears the traditional habit, has a wooden grille, has a cover for their grille in the chapel. But, they are 1991 constitutions. As far as I can tell, they are probably just as strict as their founding monastery. Please pray for them, as there is eight nuns, one just died, who are in this little house they call a monastery. Two are junior professed, one of which is going to profess her solemn vows in a couple months. Please pray for their building of a new monastery, they REALLY need it.
God Bless[/quote]

I will pray for them!!

[TotusTuusMaria]

[quote name='truthfinder' post='1635298' date='Aug 22 2008, 11:53 PM']Just wanted to say something about Carmelite monasteries in Canada. There are of at least three that I know of. Two are of the 1991 constitutions. One of which wears a modified habit. The other is a 1990 constitution monastery. They wear full habits and got too full and they founded a monastery at the other end of the country. I have met them. This new foundation still wears the traditional habit, has a wooden grille, has a cover for their grille in the chapel. But, they are 1991 constitutions. As far as I can tell, they are probably just as strict as their founding monastery. Please pray for them, as there is eight nuns, one just died, who are in this little house they call a monastery. Two are junior professed, one of which is going to profess her solemn vows in a couple months. Please pray for their building of a new monastery, they REALLY need it.
God Bless[/quote]

[truthfinder]

Thank you very much, both MandyKhatoon and TotusTuus Maria. They've been trying to get a monastery built for the last fifteen years and still nothing. Hopefully the work will start and the necessary money will come. I will pray for both of you in thanksgiving for your prayers.
God Bless

[Laudem Gloriae]

I recently bought - a few months ago - from Amazon.com the book "Let Him Do It: Life of Maravillas of Jesus" by Jose Morales. It is EXCELLENT for anyone wanting to know more about this wonderful Carmelite saint! I got it for $12.00 or so.

This is the book listed on Amazon - [url="http://www.amazon.com/Let-Him-Do-Maravillas-O-C-D/dp/B00194GAXW/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1219617475&sr=1-9"]http://www.amazon.com/Let-Him-Do-Maravilla...7475&sr=1-9[/url]

But it is "Currently Unavailable" now. But keep checking back as I've seen it on and off. This link gives more information on the book.

[praxedes]

Sister Lynne, the Prioress of the Carmel of Eldridge in Iowa, is one of the holiest and most beautiful nuns I have ever met. I doubt a habit could make her holier. It was nice to see her picture.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='MandyKhatoon' post='1634960' date='Aug 22 2008, 05:25 PM']I agree, the 1991's style is very sleek and simple, but at the same time I'm awed by the beauty of the traditional style habit. Think about the great carmelite saints: St. Teresa of Avila, St. Therese of Lisieux, St. Edith Stein, St. Teresa Margaret, Blessed Elizabeth of the Trinity, and all the others. I mean, that's the same type of habit they wore! If it was my vocation to be a carmelite nun, I would choose a convent that still has the traditional carmelite habit so to wear the same habit as the great carmelite saints. Of course I wouldn't choose a convent solely on the habit but it would be a big plus! [/quote]

I completely agree with wanting the traditonal habit. Which communities still do that?

Edited September 17, 2008 by tinytherese

[Laudem Gloriae]

There's many in the US with the full traditional habit - which is the only one I want! Why anyone would want to butcher the most beautiful habit of Our Lady is beyond me! I personally think the modifed Carmelite habit is ugly.

Go to the St. Joseph's Association of 1990 Carmels at http://carmelitenunsstjoseph.org/monastery.htm . These are the best ones.

Also, see this 1990s Carmel Photo album of monasteries at http://picasaweb.google.com/ocdnuns.

Carmel of Brooklyn, NY: no website, founded from the Buffalo, NY Carmel.

Carmel of Kensington, CA: http://www.gilmoretechservices.com/Archive...05.html#Inside1

Carmel of Santa Fe, NM: http://db.religiouslife.com/reg_life/irl.nsf/org/67 and http://www.straphaelcrystal.org/ministry/m...y_vocation.html - scroll down on right for picture of a novice.

Then there are excellent ones with no association affiliation but 90s like the Carmel of Cristo Rey (bilingual) in San Franciso (no website but this: http://db.religiouslife.com/reg_life/irl.nsf/org/99). And a foundation from them is the Carmel at Valparaiso, NE.

And another autonomous Carmel is at Clearwater, KS (http://db.religiouslife.com/reg_life/irl.nsf/org/115 and http://www.projo.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/...s.1ee9293c.html

Carmel of Iron Mt, MI: http://cloisteredlife.com/carmelites.htm




There are some 91's in full habit like and may be autonomous or in other associations:

Carmel by the Sea: http://www.carmelitesistersbythesea.net/homepage.htm

Port Tobacco Carmel: http://carmelitenunsstjoseph.org/monastery.htm

Terre Haute Carmel: http://www.heartsawake.com/

Carmel of Alhambra, CA: http://members.aol.com/teresacarm/index.htm

Carmel of St. Louis, MO: http://www.stormpages.com/mtcarmel/

Carmel of San Antonio, TX: http://www.carmelsanantonio.org/ (bilingual)

Carmel of New Caney, TX: http://www.icansurf.com/ocdnewcaney/

Carmel of San Rafael, CA: http://motherofgodcarmel.org/index.php

Carmel Alexandria, SD: go to page 7, small article on a nun on right side -
http://www.diocese-of-sioux-falls.org/comm...unebulletin.pdf

Carmel of Georgetown, CA: http://www.carmelitemonastery.com/

Carmel of Ada/Parnell, MI: http://carmelitenuns.org/

Carmel of Salt Lake City, UT: http://www.carmelslc.org/

Carmel of Hialeah, FL: http://www.miamiarch.org/ip.asp?op=H1000071221a

Carmel of Arlington, TX: http://www.carmelnuns.com/index.html - I THINK they wear the full habit, never saw pictures of them, so I'm not sure.

Carmel of Clinton Township, MI: http://www.rc.net/detroit/carmelite/



Then there are the English Carmels I am looking at:

First choice is Sheffield Carmel: http://www.kirkedge.org.uk/index.html -1990 Carmel

Other English Carmels are:

St. Helen's - 1990 but no website other than - http://www.carmelite.org.uk/StHelens.html

Two good Enghlish 1991 Carmels in full habit are:

Carmel of Wolverhampton, UK: http://www.wolvercarmvocations.org.uk/

Carmel of Upholland, UK: http://www.carmelite.org.uk/Upholland.html



Ok, I think that's a lot! The 1990s are much better and more in following St. Teresa of Avila's reformed Carmel more so than the 91s. Some O.Carms wear the full habit also.