Veritas Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' post='1098470' date='Oct 22 2006, 12:34 PM'] Well, the pronunciation is annoying in Classical Latin and the grammar can be different from Ecclesiastical Latin and the words can have different meanings... anyway, who gives a carp what the freaking Romans spoke... Latin only survived as the Lingua Franca for so long becuase it was the Holy Catholic Church's sacred tounge. [/quote] + Wow. Spoken like someone, who is too lazy to learn the history of Lingua Latina. Yes, Ecclesiastical is much, much easier but, the Church started with Classical and evolved into Ecclesiastical. Most real Latinists learn Classical first. Why? Since the Roman Church was founded in the Roman empire, it behooves us to be familiar with the ancient Roman culture and the context in which our Church was founded. Ignorance of the Classical Latin is ignorance of the Church. So, the next time you make a number of ignorant assertions, you might check the validity of them first.
veroni213 Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 Salve! Mihi nomen est Veronica. I learned how to say that in 8th grade Latin. It's basically all we learned.
Tindomiel Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 Lingua Latina is the title of my Latin textbook......
Resurrexi Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 [quote]Yes, Ecclesiastical is much, much easier but, the Church started with Classical and evolved into Ecclesiastical. Most real Latinists learn Classical first.[/quote] It may be true that Ecclesiastical evolved from Classical, but that doesn't mean I have to learn Classical. And, traditionally Latinists didn't learn Classical first becuase there was no purpose since they would by mainly reading ecclesiastical or medical works. [quote]Why? Since the Roman Church was founded in the Roman empire, it behooves us to be familiar with the ancient Roman culture and the context in which our Church was founded.[/quote] The ancient Roman culture was the Whore of Babylon! That's not something I'd like to study... [quote]Ignorance of the Classical Latin is ignorance of the Church. [/quote] No it's not... the purpose of learning Ecclesiastical Latin is to be able to follow along with the Mass and read Papal, Concicular and other ecclesiastical documents in their original language... and to read the Bible in it's version which is "free from error". You don't need to know the history of France to learn French or the history of Spain to learn Spanish... [quote]So, the next time you make a number of ignorant assertions, you might check the validity of them first.[/quote] The only one of those assertations which really annoys me is the pronunciation of Classical... I just can't stand it...
Quietfire Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 oy, take a breath boy youre giving me a headache.
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' post='1098503' date='Oct 22 2006, 04:37 PM'] It may be true that Ecclesiastical evolved from Classical, but that doesn't mean I have to learn Classical. And, traditionally Latinists didn't learn Classical first becuase there was no purpose since they would by mainly reading ecclesiastical or medical works. [/quote] As someone who has studied both, learning Classical will give you a much better base of study, better reference points, and a greater understanding of the language (and of philosophy).
MIKolbe Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 anybody know some good sources to learn Latin at home? like a self-study course? Just to learn it to learn it?
CatholicCid Posted October 22, 2006 Posted October 22, 2006 [quote name='MIkolbe' post='1098579' date='Oct 22 2006, 04:41 PM'] anybody know some good sources to learn Latin at home? like a self-study course? Just to learn it to learn it? [/quote] I keep a Roman locked in my closet
Tindomiel Posted October 23, 2006 Posted October 23, 2006 [quote name='MIkolbe' post='1098579' date='Oct 22 2006, 06:41 PM'] anybody know some good sources to learn Latin at home? like a self-study course? Just to learn it to learn it? [/quote] Lingua Latina... a self paced immersion course designed for home study. It's written by some European named Hans Orberg, and manages to be crazily amusing as well.
Kosh Posted October 23, 2006 Author Posted October 23, 2006 Um, StThomasMore? You can read Caesar and Cicero and all that good stuff knowing Classical Latin. And Roman Culture the Whore of Babylon? Am I missing something?
Resurrexi Posted October 23, 2006 Posted October 23, 2006 Who would want to read Caesar or Cicero... anyway, you can read their stuff even if you only know Ecclesiastical Latin. Yeah, Ancient Pre-Christian Rome is the Whore of Babylon.
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 23, 2006 Posted October 23, 2006 [quote name='StThomasMore' post='1098798' date='Oct 23 2006, 12:59 AM'] Who would want to read Caesar or Cicero... anyway, you can read their stuff even if you only know Ecclesiastical Latin. Yeah, Ancient Pre-Christian Rome is the Whore of Babylon. [/quote] Actually, pre-Christian Rome isn't what's being referenced in Revelation. St. John was clearly referencing anti-Christian Rome, which cannot by entirely pre-Christian, since Rome had to know of Christianity insofar as it hated it. Besides, painting all of pagan Roman culture as inherently evil is willful ignorance of all that classical culture contributed to the Church. Look at all the Greek influence on Christian art and the impact of classical philosophy. They may have gotten religion wrong, but they sure knew their arts and sciences. Besides, even in their religion, they were in some ways proto-Christian. Their religious attitudes and themes often showed an unconscious anticipation of salvation. Furthermore, the classics provide us with a view of ancient pagan history, and a man who knows nothing of that subject knows nothing of that from which God came to save His people. Oh, and Caesar is easy, but Cicero is bit harder...however, you try reading Plautus and Terence with your ecclesiastical Latin and see how far you get.
Kosh Posted October 23, 2006 Author Posted October 23, 2006 StThomasMore, Cicero was one of the greatest Orators ever. Caesar was one of the greatest generals ever. Roman culture and language is in lots of aspects of our society. Just take a look at ancient art! Lots of our own words are derived from latin! Ideally, one should learn both ecclesiastical and classical, and I have to cut this short b/c I must go now.
Norseman82 Posted October 29, 2006 Posted October 29, 2006 (edited) [quote name='StThomasMore' post='1098798' date='Oct 22 2006, 11:59 PM'] Who would want to read Caesar or Cicero... anyway, you can read their stuff even if you only know Ecclesiastical Latin. Yeah, Ancient Pre-Christian Rome is the Whore of Babylon. [/quote] And you don't think that seminarians don't study classical Roman literature? Have you ever heard the line "Gallia divisa est in partes tres"? Do you know who wrote that and what work that is the beginning line of? BTW, I had 2 years Latin in HS. Funny but true story: I ended an email a few days ago about my opinion about setiing up some test files with "Quid Vobis Videtur?" A manager in another department whom I cc:ed asked if it was Klingon. Edited October 29, 2006 by Norseman82
Thy Geekdom Come Posted October 29, 2006 Posted October 29, 2006 [quote name='Norseman82' post='1103866' date='Oct 29 2006, 02:36 AM'] And you don't think that seminarians don't study classical Roman literature? Have you ever heard the line "Gallia divisa est in partes tres"? [/quote] I had to memorize the first paragraph of De Bello Gallico in high school Latin. I still know it! :
Veritas Posted October 29, 2006 Posted October 29, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Veritas' post='1098484' date='Oct 22 2006, 12:45 PM'] + Wow. Spoken like someone, who is too lazy to learn the history of Lingua Latina. Yes, Ecclesiastical is much, much easier but, the Church started with Classical and evolved into Ecclesiastical. Most real Latinists learn Classical first. Why? Since the Roman Church was founded in the Roman empire, it behooves us to be familiar with the ancient Roman culture and the context in which our Church was founded. Ignorance of the Classical Latin is ignorance of the Church. So, the next time you make a number of ignorant assertions, you might check the validity of them first. [/quote] + Hey, That was really harsh of me. Especially, the "ignorant assertions" part. It's no excuse, but it was a really rough day. My sincere apologies. I mean, really V, it's only Latin! Sheesh! Okay, I would attach a self-portrait of me with a bust of Cicero at the Capitoline in Rome, but I still haven't figured-out the photobucket thing (especially when they're too large). Suffice to say, Cicero amicus est. Edited October 29, 2006 by Veritas
CrossCuT Posted October 29, 2006 Posted October 29, 2006 [size=1]In 5th grade, I was pretty close to being fluent in Latin. Weird huh? But I cant remember ANYTHING now... [/size]
Norseman82 Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 (edited) [quote name='Raphael' post='1103872' date='Oct 29 2006, 12:40 AM'] I had to memorize the first paragraph of De Bello Gallico in high school Latin. I still know it! : [/quote] Did you also memorize it in the original Klingon? Edited October 31, 2006 by Norseman82
Kosh Posted October 31, 2006 Author Posted October 31, 2006 If I could learn 3 languages it'd be English, Latin, and Klingon. Oh, and throw Sindarian in for good measure.
Norseman82 Posted October 31, 2006 Posted October 31, 2006 [quote name='Kosh' post='1105855' date='Oct 30 2006, 11:09 PM'] If I could learn 3 languages it'd be English, Latin, and Klingon. [/quote] [url="http://www.kli.org/"]Klingon Language Institute[/url]
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