Thy Geekdom Come Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 [quote name='KizlarAgha' post='1107634' date='Nov 1 2006, 05:57 PM'] Oh and Micah, beanbag guns have killed in the past too. As have rubber bullets. Pepperballs work well, but not on all suspects - like those who are high on PCP for example. [/quote] I was trying to be a bit odd (imagine cowboys in the old west shooting beanbags at each other), but nonetheless, I'd imagine they're safer. Don't know.
Quietfire Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 Why not. My local hospital requires that patients be flown to Westchester Medical, which is much better equiped to handle just about anything. We are catching up though. But I constantly see the choppers flying over.
KizlarAgha Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 [quote name='Raphael' post='1107668' date='Nov 1 2006, 04:10 PM'] I was trying to be a bit odd (imagine cowboys in the old west shooting beanbags at each other), but nonetheless, I'd imagine they're safer. Don't know. [/quote] They're not safe really. There's a reason the proper terminology for these weapons is not non-lethal it's "less-lethal." The latter term recognizes their capacity to kill, but also that the primary intention is not to kill. Maybe someday we'll have a weapon for police officers that perfectly subdues a suspect with no detrimental side-effects. But until we get a Star Trek phaser, that's not going to happen.
CatholicCid Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 [quote name='Quietfire' post='1107671' date='Nov 1 2006, 04:11 PM'] Why not. My local hospital requires that patients be flown to Westchester Medical, which is much better equiped to handle just about anything. We are catching up though. But I constantly see the choppers flying over. [/quote] True. I just meant the article itself only states the location as "Jerseyville". Ignore the rest of my comment :
Quietfire Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 I still say that primarily we should pray for those involved.
cappie Posted November 1, 2006 Author Posted November 1, 2006 [url="http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=106587"]http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=106587[/url]
Quietfire Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 So it didnt happen in a hospital but on the street. Watch the report on Cappie's link above. So sad.
catholicinsd Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 [quote name='T-Bone' post='1107628' date='Nov 1 2006, 02:55 PM'] He appeared to be mentally disturbed. The police were trying to help. [/quote] They helped a lot. So they shot a menatlly unstable person. Now, it doen't matter if was a taser of not, you don't shoot a mentally unstable person.
KizlarAgha Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 Sounds like one of the mentally ill people from my old neighborhood who often screams into a disconnected telephone on a street corner. But hey, he was mentally ill so I doubt it will be looked at very seriously.
Guest T-Bone Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 [quote name='catholicinsd' post='1107712' date='Nov 1 2006, 01:36 PM'] They helped a lot. So they shot a menatlly unstable person. Now, it doen't matter if was a taser of not, you don't shoot a mentally unstable person. [/quote] Then how would you suggest subduing them?
Winchester Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 [quote name='CatholicCid' post='1107252' date='Nov 1 2006, 01:48 AM'] Why wouldn't they just force him too the ground? What would he do, swing with the bible? Why were they even after him? [/quote] Because the use of a taser is more accepted, now. And it's safer for the cops, who are enforcing the law and have families to go home to. It's rare to get a whupping if you comply. Very rare. [quote name='CatholicCid' post='1107256' date='Nov 1 2006, 01:56 AM'] Just as the cops shouldn't mess around with stun guns... If only the article talked a little bit more about why the cops came or what the charges would be for. [/quote] So you think it would be better to use clubs and guns. How many people have you subdued lately, all the while watching your back for idiots who think you should just leave the problem be?
CatholicCid Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 (edited) As I said, I wish the article was a little more clear at the time. And since it has been and from the witness statement and such, I would now agree with the majority of the amount of force used. (I like to think I was pretty constant through this topic... Stating I wished there was more detail...) And 12 people subdued so far and counting. Edited November 1, 2006 by CatholicCid
Winchester Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 [quote name='catholicinsd' post='1107712' date='Nov 1 2006, 03:36 PM'] They helped a lot. So they shot a menatlly unstable person. Now, it doen't matter if was a taser of not, you don't shoot a mentally unstable person. [/quote] Yeah, because there's a magic spell that makes it so mentally unstable people can't hurt mentally stable people. How, pray tell, oh wise and experienced law enforcement officer, do we subdue the mentally unstable? Here's a scenario. You are a Captain on a fire engine and you get a run for a seizure call. It is evening and dark outside. You arrive at a house that is dark outside and dimly lit inside and a civilian points you in saying the patient is on the floor and "fell out" (unconcious.) You and another member of your crew enter the house, with the compliment of your crew (two more firefighters, four yet to arrive on the ambulance and squad) and find a man lying on the bathroom floor breathing irregularly. Your firefighters calls to the man and gets no response, so he moves closer, checking the area with his flashlight. The firefighter is now in a small hallway and you are in the door to the hallway. The patient jumps up and assaults your firefighter, biting him on the hand. Your call, what do you do?
catholicinsd Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 Yo peeps that support the cops in this situation- what did poor Roger do that was so wrong?
Guest T-Bone Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 [quote name='catholicinsd' post='1108078' date='Nov 1 2006, 04:44 PM'] Yo peeps that support the cops in this situation- what did poor Roger do that was so wrong? [/quote] What did the law enforcement officers do that so so wrong?
Anomaly Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 [quote name='catholicinsd' post='1108078' date='Nov 1 2006, 07:44 PM'] Yo peeps that support the cops in this situation- what did poor Roger do that was so wrong? [/quote]You're kidding, right? Are you just a cop hater, or are you just trying to be contreversial? If the person was acting disturbed, then society should help him seek help before he hurts himself or some innocent passerby. That's why we have Baker Act laws. Maybe he hadn't taken his medication, maybe he was on drugs, maybe he suffered a blow to the head. The cops did not taser him with the idea that it would harm Roger. They believed it would incapacitate him so they could cuff him and take him to get some help.
Winchester Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 [quote name='Winchester' post='1108050' date='Nov 1 2006, 06:32 PM'] Yeah, because there's a magic spell that makes it so mentally unstable people can't hurt mentally stable people. How, pray tell, oh wise and experienced law enforcement officer, do we subdue the mentally unstable? Here's a scenario. You are a Captain on a fire engine and you get a run for a seizure call. It is evening and dark outside. You arrive at a house that is dark outside and dimly lit inside and a civilian points you in saying the patient is on the floor and "fell out" (unconcious.) You and another member of your crew enter the house, with the compliment of your crew (two more firefighters, four yet to arrive on the ambulance and squad) and find a man lying on the bathroom floor breathing irregularly. Your firefighters calls to the man and gets no response, so he moves closer, checking the area with his flashlight. The firefighter is now in a small hallway and you are in the door to the hallway. The patient jumps up and assaults your firefighter, biting him on the hand. Your call, what do you do? [/quote]
catholicinsd Posted November 1, 2006 Posted November 1, 2006 [quote name='T-Bone' post='1108096' date='Nov 1 2006, 07:49 PM'] What did the law enforcement officers do that so so wrong? [/quote] Umm. I don't know. Killing a child perhaps. [quote name='Anomaly' post='1108097' date='Nov 1 2006, 07:50 PM'] You're kidding, right? Are you just a cop hater, or are you just trying to be contreversial? If the person was acting disturbed, then society should help him seek help before he hurts himself or some innocent passerby. That's why we have Baker Act laws. Maybe he hadn't taken his medication, maybe he was on drugs, maybe he suffered a blow to the head. The cops did not taser him with the idea that it would harm Roger. They believed it would incapacitate him so they could cuff him and take him to get some help. [/quote] I'm asking if shouting "I want Jesus" merits being tasered.
Guest T-Bone Posted November 2, 2006 Posted November 2, 2006 [quote name='catholicinsd' post='1108104' date='Nov 1 2006, 04:53 PM'] Umm. I don't know. Killing a child perhaps. [/quote] So you're saying that they intentionally did this? That they didn't follow reasonable procedures? That the law enforcent officers were negligent in some manner? [quote name='catholicinsd' post='1108104' date='Nov 1 2006, 04:54 PM'] I'm asking if shouting "I want Jesus" merits being tasered. [/quote] HE WAS NOT MERELY SHOUTING "I want Jesus"!!!! HE WAS ACTING IN AN AGITATED MANNER!!!! HE WAS COMBATIVE TOWARD POLICE OFFICERS!!!! He did not deserve to die, but the police did not act inappropriately.
Recommended Posts