Offering Words Of Comfort

[Dave]

Hmmm . . . there is always a choice I think. St. Francis de Sales says that it's horrible when people cuase spiritual murder . . . but its more horrible when people cause themselves spiritual suicide . .. he uses specifically the example of people who will allow the sins of others to allow themselves to turn away from Christ.

It may be horrible, but it happens. That's just human nature, right or wrong.

However you don't seem to suggest that those who are asking advice need to use Heroic virtue to be patient with those who are giving advice.

This isn't about asking for advice per se. It's about someone just needing someone to talk to when feeling upset or sad or angry and not having to worry about being made to feel "less than" and receiving words of comfort (which aren't necessarily words of advice).

Advice is a two way street. If you just wnat someone to comfort and coddle you, then tell them that. But if they choose not to do it, then you have to be willing to accept that as well.

Again, you ignore the fact that one has to know when it's wise to give advice and when it's wise to comfort.

Maybe the person constantly complaining is leading people away from Christ as well.

I wasn't referring to someone who's constantly complaining. And yes, advice is a 2-way street. Maybe those who give advice would do well to also take correction themselves when necessary instead of rationalizing, if that scenario happens to apply to them.

[Dave]

I hope it wasn't the e-mail I sent you Dave??

No, jasJis, I can say for sure that it was NOT that.

[Dave]

whaat is this really about? i'm not good at reading betwixt da lines.

Just something that happened to be crossing my mind.

[jasJis]

Whew!

As somebody who has dealt with depression and stuff for years, I understand what you mean, Dave. Words such as "toughen up", "deal with it", "get over it", "offer it up", quite frankly... smell of elderberries.

Even "Dude, that smells of elderberries." is more helpful. It's hard to empathasize if you cannot see it from the other side. To me, that's one of the reasons God became man. We really know that God empathasizes and he knows what he's about when He say "Dude, that's rough. Can I help." He didn't tell Jesus to "smell of elderberries it up" when He stumbled with His Cross, He sent a fellow human to help. God knows our personal human capabilities are not enough.

[BLAZEr]

I feel like getting up on my soapbox and venting about something.

We all feel down at times. And at those times, often times all we want is someone to lend an ear and offer us some encouraging words.

Sometimes, however, certain individuals who mean well are anything but comforting. They may say things that come off as rather harsh. They may not say something as cruel as, "Get over it!" but they may instead say something else that may not exactly be cruel but still insensitive. For example, they may simply tell you to buck up. Or they may tell you to accept it as a cross. Or they may tell you to offer it up.

Now, I'm all for offering stuff up and accepting one's cross. We all need to do that. But there's a time and a place for being told to do that. And I'm NOT advocating having pity parties. However, reassuring words will do A LOT more good that kicking someone while they're down.

I'm saying this on Phatmass because at times in the past I've noticed certain people here have been guilty of the sort of thing I'm talking about. You know who you are.

I can't speak for anyone else, but to those who have been guilty of this, let me just say that acting cold and unfeeling in the name of God when somebody is upset won't inspire them to grow in holiness. If anything, it will make them feel ashamed for not being "holy enough" and create the opposite effect. Believe me; I know.

Thanks for allowing me to say my piece.

Ok, I am assuming from your post that your complaint refers to people on Phatmass and people online. The biggest difficulty here is that no one online can really know how you're feeling. One of the difficulties of this medium is that you can't tell tone, or infleciton, you can't see someones face or read their body language.

In a very real way, consolation cannot be sought on Phatmass like it can be in real life. In fact, Phatmass if amesome, but it cannot take the place of real life relationships. A computer can't hug us . . . and it can't really console us. And it geniuses us into thinking that our friendships are built on solid ground and not on shifting sand . . .

That's part of the reason I never get upset on Phatmass. It's great stress relief because I can have a little bit of detachment from the drama . . . since technically it's just typed words.

I do realize that we are all human beings, but we have to learn to be a little less affected by what goes on in here. We can't allow things to be taken too personally. We have to be willing to let more slide off of our back in here than we would in real life.

[BLAZEr]

Whew!

As somebody who has dealt with depression and stuff for years, I understand what you mean, Dave. Words such as "toughen up", "deal with it", "get over it", "offer it up", quite frankly... smell of elderberries.

Even "Dude, that smells of elderberries." is more helpful. It's hard to empathasize if you cannot see it from the other side. To me, that's one of the reasons God became man. We really know that God empathasizes and he knows what he's about when He say "Dude, that's rough. Can I help." He didn't tell Jesus to "smell of elderberries it up" when He stumbled with His Cross, He sent a fellow human to help. God knows our personal human capabilities are not enough.

That's amesome! And here is where we have to learn from the saints . . .

The only person who will never let us down is Christ. Everyone else will not be as compassionate as we want them to be. This is why St. Teresa said to a nun who was complaining about the way people were treating her "Don't tell me, tell the King."

I think you're right Jas. But I also think that as Christians we have to realize we need to turn to Jesus more than we turn to others. We need to let him be our consolation. We need to pray more.

The Prayer of St. Francis says is really well . . .

Lord Grant that I may seek, not so much to be consoled as to console.

[Dave]

Ok, I am assuming from your post that your complaint refers to people on Phatmass and people online. The biggest difficulty here is that no one online can really know how you're feeling. One of the difficulties of this medium is that you can't tell tone, or infleciton, you can't see someones face or read their body language.

In a very real way, consolation cannot be sought on Phatmass like it can be in real life. In fact, Phatmass if amesome, but it cannot take the place of real life relationships. A computer can't hug us . . . and it can't really console us. And it geniuses us into thinking that our friendships are built on solid ground and not on shifting sand . . .

That's part of the reason I never get upset on Phatmass. It's great stress relief because I can have a little bit of detachment from the drama . . . since technically it's just typed words.

I do realize that we are all human beings, but we have to learn to be a little less affected by what goes on in here. We can't allow things to be taken too personally. We have to be willing to let more slide off of our back in here than we would in real life.

I'm speaking in general, actually, but it just so happens that I've seen it from certain people on Phatmass.

[jasJis]

I think you're right Jas. But I also think that as Christians we have to realize we need to turn to Jesus more than we turn to others. We need to let him be our consolation. We need to pray more.

Dude. Where do you think Jesus lives here on Earth?

Us in Him, He in us.

Be Jesus to someone today.

If someone is turning to you, you are being asked to help Jesus. (Ya' know, 'the least of these....?)

[Dave]

Dude. Where do you think Jesus lives here on Earth?

Us in Him, He in us.

Be Jesus to someone today.

If someone is turning to you, you are being asked to help Jesus. (Ya' know, 'the least of these....?)

*gives jasJis a high five*

[BLAZEr]

dude, you are totally right . . .

But I'm referring to the person seeking consolation . . . seek him in the Eucharist, seek him in the Confessional, seek him in the Crucifix, seek him in prayer . . .

If you want healing, seek him and not men . . .

[Dave]

dude, you are totally right . . .

But I'm referring to the person seeking consolation . . . seek him in the Eucharist, seek him in the Confessional, seek him in the Crucifix, seek him in prayer . . .

If you want healing, seek him and not men . . .

So in other words we should hold it inside and bottle things up? Yes, we need to take it to the Lord, but sometimes we need human contact too. Jesus never told us to talk to Him about our problems AND keep silent about them to everyone else.

Edited January 14, 2004 by Dave

[BLAZEr]

When you speak to people, you always risk some level of rejection. I am not implying that you only speak to God (though I don't know if that's bad advice, nesessarily) but when you speak to a man, you have to be realistic about how their humanity is going to receive something.

What I had said where you quoted me was very clearly in reference to my previous comment where I spoke of the only person that won't dissappoint you. That person is in fact Christ. And speaking to Jesus in Confession also involves another person: a priest.

At some point we all recognize that we decide how to receive people's counsel.

St. Pius X says:

"Without an interior life, we will never have strength to perserver in sustaining all the difficulites inseperable from any apostolate, the coldness and lack of cooperaion even on the part of virtuous men, the calumnies of our adversaries, and at times even teh jealousy of friends and comrades in arms . . . Only a patient virtue, unshakably based upon the good, and at the same time smooth and tactful, is able to move these difficulties to one side and diminish their power.'

I guess this has really been my point all along, though I haven't done justice to its expression. We have to realize, as much as we should expect people to be Christ to us, that we only have control over ourselves, not the way people are going to react. Sometimes even virtuous people are indifferent to our needs. Not because they don't try to imitate Christ, but because all of our responses are mediated through our humanity, and our humanity is not perfect. The virtue that we most have to cultivate if we don't want to be constantly hurt by everyone is Patience. We have to be patient with those who love us as much as we demand them to be patient with us.

What you describe at the outset, about wanting people to react to our needs appropriately, requires patience on their part. They need to be patient to understanding our needs, and patient to make the right decision in how to treat us. However, this is only one half of the coin, and from the perspective of the person who needs the consolation, it is the least important half. The most important half is that we learn patience in those whose "coldness and lack of cooperation" does not necessarily arise out of their malintent.

This prayer by Catherine de Hueck Doherty has been a big help to me:

"Beloved, my heart is torn by sorrow.  I love You.  I want to serve You.  But human beings tear my heart to pieces.  Give me strength, humility, understanding.  Abote all, give me forgiveness -- never to hold a grudge against anyone, to love all alike.  O Jesus, please!  I do want to serve you in humility.  Give me love of Yourself, humility, purity of intention, the gift of prayer.  O Beloved, I will besiege You for these gifts for they will bring me nearer to You."

I think its amesome, and has really helepd me.

[jasJis]

If you want healing, seek him and not men .

BLAZEr,

What I'm saying is when we seek HIM, we also find HIM in each other. If He lives in us interiorly, He also lives in our neighbor. God IS NOT exclusively outside us. Jesus is as close as you and I talking about this. Jesus is as close as a friend's attentive patience, just quietly listening without speaking. Just as real as His Presence in the Blessed Sacrament. The vision we see is different. God's Glory is manifested differently. We are all called to be Persona Christi here on earth. We have to pay attention to listen to God in order to answer His call in the unique way He desire for each of us.

"Through Him, with Him, and in Him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honors is yours, almighty Father, for ever and ever. Amen." is more than a doxology of the Trinity in the Eucharist. It's purposeful we pray that right before the Our Father. It's also why we have the right, and the duty to call Him 'Our Father'.

If your main concern is your interior life, all you'll end up with is ingrown eyeballs. Your interior life is pointless unless it serves your exterior life. Your exterior life is shallow without you interior life. God doesn't aid us just by speaking in our heart, he's sending His real Grace through real people, through the sun that rises everymorning, through the human friend that listens.

[Azriel]

love ya J.

[Carrie]

This is a good topic and should be bumped for anyone who missed it.

BUMP

[Lil Red]

I need to say something here.

Sometimes I have offered words of advice/comfort to someone that others have taken as blunt, not helping, not very nice,

when in fact, my words were not meant that way and I have said so.

My point is, sometimes we type something here on Phatmass and someone takes it totally wrong because they can't hear my meaning behind my words. Do we need to post every single time, "I'm being sincere" or something like that?

I'm just saying it's hard to tell what someone actually means unless you are hearing their voice, their voice inflection and sometimes seeing their facial expressions.

[Paladin D]

Truely a beneficial topic.

The best thing you can do when someone you know is down and upset, is listen. Me personally (and everyone else... unless they think they're Mr. Perfect), don't have all the answers. Sometimes we let out the words "smell of elderberries it up", or some other phrase that is not that helpful to the situation at hand.

Just listen to the person, let he/she spill out his/her troubles to you. Then comfort him/her in some way, like what JasJis said... a simple "Dude, that smells of elderberries" may sound rather simple and usually what teenagers/young adults would say, but it helps show your sorrow with the person. Though you don't have to say that actual line, but something that shows your compassion (in the way you know how).

Sometimes we hear about someone being truely upset and in deep sorrow. Far too often in today's world, many people (sometimes ALL of us) don't have as much compassion towards that individual at times. But we must understand this...

Wouldn't you want someone to comfort you and to give even a few minutes at least to hear your problems? And for them to truely try and find an answer?

...meditate on it.

[Norseman82]

What I'm saying is when we seek HIM, we also find HIM in each other. If He lives in us interiorly, He also lives in our neighbor.

I'd like to build on that comment with something St. Paul wrote in Galatians 6:2:

"Help carry one another's burdens; in that way you will fulfill the law of Christ"

[cmotherofpirl]

THats fine if you know they have a burden, but many people carry a secret sorrow or two. Over time it distorts their ability to think and feel. Somebody pushes their button and triggers an emotional response far exceeding most peoples reaction.

Mostly its about forgiveness of themselves or others for things they have or haven't done, or something that was done to them.

[dUSt]

"After losing those human consolations you have been left with a feeling of loneliness, as if you were hanging by a thin thread over the emptiness of a black abyss. And your cries, your shouts for help, seem to go unheard by anybody.

The truth is you deserve to be so forlorn. Be humble; don't seek yourself; don't seek your own satisfaction. Love the cross--to bear it is little--and our Lord will hear your prayer. And in time, calm will be restored to your senses. And your heart will heal, and you will have peace."

- St Josemaria Escriva