Don John of Austria Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 If we found intellegent alien life we would have to make certian determinations, among these would be----Are they Children of Adam--- are they touched by Original sin, and need salvation. If not- are they perfect? Do they live forever and have no sin in them ( then this would have to be a seperate creation), assuming that they arn't perfect do they have souls at all, if they do and they are not perfect and they are not Children of Adam is the sacrifice of Christ for them or not? If they do not have souls then they are but animals, smart animals, but animals none the less what relation should we have with a supersmart beast, should we stewart them or just level them before they ( following the nature of beast) level us?
phatcatholic Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 are not humans intended to be the greatest of all created things. is not creation subject to humanity? if this is true--and i always thought it was--then if we find aliens they can only be one of two things: 1. animals, or 2. more highly evolved humans we will know they are animals if they make decisions based on anything other than instinct. only humans have the ability to reason. therefore, if these aliens show the ability to reason, then they are part of humanity. if they are humans then they have a soul and are therefore saved by christ's death on the cross, which was for ALL mankind. i believe that my logic is consistent, but i am open to correction (especially on my first two sentences) since i have not researched this very thoroughly. pax christi, phatcatholic
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 I've thought about this question before, but I've never answered it. Somewhere along the line I remember that I don't believe in aliens and I forget it.
hyperdulia again Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 If they are intelligent and have souls, but have a seperate ecclesial structure and theological language (somethinng that matches Catholicism at some point in it's developement its understanding of Divine Revelation), would it even be right to attempt to evangelize them? Does what I'm asking make sense?
PyroPenguinX07 Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 That is a good question. I think it would be cool though if the aliens looked like the Maians from Perfect Dark and were friendly.
Don John of Austria Posted January 15, 2004 Author Posted January 15, 2004 Thedude I agree, I don't believe in aliens either butthe quetion kept coming up. Phatcatholic- "2. more highly evolved humans" they could be less evolved Humans. but your thinking is simular to mine excepting these to things, to be human has to do with the soul not with the Form so they might not biologically be human and still be human, likewise the could look human and be an animal. However I wouldn't leave out the posability of another creation. Hyper -- So you are saying -if they also had an incarnation of God in their history it might not be right to convert them or are you saying if they have a religion with simular values systems, could you be more specific..
hyperdulia again Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 If their religion looks like Judaism looked in 1 AD or like Catholicism looked from 33 AD till ? I think it might be heretical to suggest that Jesus went to their planet and died too, but what if they believe in a God who put on flesh and died on another planet far away and have their own understanding of such things (not contradictory, just uniquely there's). Did that make sense?
hyperdulia again Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 "Hyper -- So you are saying -if they also had an incarnation of God in their history it might not be right to convert them.." OUI!
PhatPhred Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 It could be that we are called upon to help the aliens avoid the fall into original sin, as in C.S. Lewis' Perelandra. Or maybe they would be trying to help us, as in C.S. Lewis' Out of the Silent Planet. (I'm a big C.S. Lewis fan.)
God Conquers Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 Maybe God created separately in many places, and each "race" was subject to the fall. Either we would have to evangelize them, b/c Christ was only present on our planet, or as hyper suggested, leave'em be if the Church (in soem form or another) is already present there. Maybe we could learn from them... This is the wierdest theological debate ever.
PedroX Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 Don, As promised I have been giving this thought, and if I might be allowed the liberty, I would like to merge the two questions. I do not believe that we are given implicit or explicit dominion over other planets. The English translations of Genesis do not support this. Therefore, the colonization of other worlds is a very touchy subject. As pertains to this question of evangelization, we must delve deep into the theoretical. If we can assume that life has developed on other planets, do we have the hubris to say that God created life but chose only to redeem Earthlings? I personally find this to be preposterous. Two realistic options are available. One is that the life that God created on other planets did not fall into sin, therefore keeping an unbroken relationship with the creator (also allowing the strong possibility of immortal fleshly life). The second option is that this life form also fell into sin (as did Earthlings) and therefore God made a way of redemption available to them. Thus, they have no need of our evangelization. Presuming to be the only life forms that God loves is the basis for Orson Scott Cards wonderful tale of warning, "Ender's Game." Of course, the third option is that if alien life is discovered, then the Mormons were right all along! peace...
phatcatholic Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 (edited) i think i'm w/ u pedro. since there is only one God, how can we even entertain the idea that they have their own God that saves them and we have our God that saves us. perposterous indeed! Our God is not the one God of Earth, but the One God--period! also, am i correct in stating that only humans have souls? if this is true, then what separates humans from ALL other creatures? Answer: free will and the ability to reason. therefore, if we find aliens--wether they are more or less evolved then humans--and they make decisions based on anything other than instinct, they are humans. if they are humans they have a soul. if they have a soul, then Jesus Christ, the ONE GOD, died for them just as he died for us. if they don't know Jesus then they must be evangelized. if communication barriers exist that prevent us from telling them about Jesus, then they will be saved through truth the only way they know it--just as anyone on earth who does not know Jesus still has the chance to be in heaven. i don't really see how it can be any other way..... ur thoughts? pax, phatcatholic Edited January 15, 2004 by phatcatholic
hyperdulia again Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 I donn't think ne1 has put forth the idea that they have another God. If that's what you got from my post I ask you, respectfully, to please go an read what I wrote again.
phatcatholic Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 (edited) but what if they believe in a God who put on flesh and died on another planet far away and have their own understanding of such things (not contradictory, just uniquely there's). "Hyper -- So you are saying -if they also had an incarnation of God in their history it might not be right to convert them.." OUI! when i read these two quotes, i understood them as follows: --in the first quote u are just questioning the possibility of aliens having their own God that died for them --don asks u if u thought we did not have the right to convert such aliens, w/ their own God --u responded w/ "OUI!" --i took this "oui" sound as one of agreement, in which case u would be affirming the statement: --we don't have the right to convert them b/c they have their own God that put on flesh and died for them --when i read this, and understood it as such, i stated there there is only ONE God, not a God that died for us and a separate God that died for them. so, given the opportunity we should--and we have the right to--tell them about our God. if my logic is inconsistent w/ what u were thinking, then i stand corrected. i just thought i'd let u know why i understood ur statements the way i did. no biggie..........afterall, we are talking about aliens here, hehe :D pax christi, phatcatholic Edited January 15, 2004 by phatcatholic
PedroX Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 Phat C. I read Hyper's posts to say unique incarnation of the same God. Not different God, just different expression. peace...
Anna Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 (edited) What is that smell????? :heymon: Edited January 15, 2004 by Anna
PedroX Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 Hey, I'm a geek, not under the influence. Since geeks have stunted social skills, and no life, we have plenty of time to think deep thoughts about the possibility of souls in Aliens! :D You're just jealous that I'm prepared for "First Contact". I am totally prepared to meet our Alien masters! peace...
Anna Posted January 15, 2004 Posted January 15, 2004 I am jealous because of your astonishing capacity for deep thoughts. :blink:
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