Why Did Mary Have To Marry Joseph To Have Jesus?

[Theologian in Training]

No, I have not lost my mind, it is a question that the 3rd grade CCD class posed to me. I know the answer, but I am having trouble trying to "translate" it for kids to understand. I think also my brain still hurts from trying to explain everything short of the Trinity yesterday to the 3rd graders as well.

I have been doing these Q&A's in the Church bulletin and the teacher of the 3rd grade decided to have them ask me questions. Thankfully, I am almost done. They seem like easy questions, until you sit down and try to answer them.

Anyway, if anyone has any insights or help, I am all ears.

God Bless

Fr. Brian

[Groo the Wanderer]

Here is what I would say:

Mary did not have to marry Joseph to HAVE Jesus. She had to marry Joseph to be obedient to the law and to be able to live.

Under the law at the time, a woman having a baby outside of marriage would be major problem. Also since women could not own property or have a job, Mary would not have been able to provide for Jesus and give him food or clothes.

Mary and Jesus needed Joseph to protect them and to provide for them until Jesus grew up.




How's dat?

[scardella]

I bet you're learning more theology than you thought you would just by answering 3rd graders' questions.

[Laudate_Dominum]

A family with a mother and father is how it's supposed to be. I wouldn't say it is merely, or even primarily a matter of the law or logistics, it is an expression of the fact that God created us male and female and that children ought to be raised with two parents.

I think there would be real questions if Jesus had been raised by a single parent.

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='scardella' post='1120800' date='Nov 15 2006, 03:24 PM']
I bet you're learning more theology than you thought you would just by answering 3rd graders' questions.
[/quote]

More than I ever realized

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' post='1120756' date='Nov 15 2006, 02:12 PM']
Here is what I would say:

Mary did not have to marry Joseph to HAVE Jesus. She had to marry Joseph to be obedient to the law and to be able to live.

Under the law at the time, a woman having a baby outside of marriage would be major problem. Also since women could not own property or have a job, Mary would not have been able to provide for Jesus and give him food or clothes.

Mary and Jesus needed Joseph to protect them and to provide for them until Jesus grew up.
How's dat?
[/quote]

It is good, but this is for the bulletin, so I make it understandable enough for 3rd graders, to a certain degree, but educational enough for the rest, to a certain degree. The balance is what kills me.

[tonyofpadua]

Didn't it also have something to do with Joseph being of the line of David? The messianic prophecy had to be fulfilled. Joseph was a direct descendant of David, not Mary, correct? And it wasn't realy harped about when Jesus was a kid that God was Jesus' real father. Everyone assumed it was Joseph. Not to say this is the only reason why Mary had to marry Joseph, but that has at least something to do with it, right?

(This is more out of my own curiosity than for the 3rd graders...)

[Resurrexi]

Tony, Mary was of the line of David as well, so I think that the prophecy was fufilled through Her, not through David.

[kateri05]

they both were of the line of David - check the geneologies in LUke and Matthew. they were of the same family, hence why they would have been betrothed in teh first place. tribes inner-married to preserve the tribes.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='kateri05' post='1121400' date='Nov 15 2006, 11:30 PM']
they both were of the line of David - check the geneologies in LUke and Matthew. they were of the same family, hence why they would have been betrothed in teh first place. tribes inner-married to preserve the tribes.
[/quote]
woh, interesting! i never realized that

[Resurrexi]

[quote]not through David.[/quote]

Oops. Not through Jospeh is what I meant.

[jswranch]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1120703' date='Nov 15 2006, 11:31 AM']
No, I have not lost my mind, it is a question that the 3rd grade CCD class posed to me. I know the answer, but I am having trouble trying to "translate" it for kids to understand. I think also my brain still hurts from trying to explain everything short of the Trinity yesterday to the 3rd graders as well.

I have been doing these Q&A's in the Church bulletin and the teacher of the 3rd grade decided to have them ask me questions. Thankfully, I am almost done. They seem like easy questions, until you sit down and try to answer them.

Anyway, if anyone has any insights or help, I am all ears.

God Bless

Fr. Brian
[/quote]

So Jesus could have a daddy in the house, just like God designed marriage. See LK2:51-52.

[Theologian in Training]

Ok, you guys were very helpful...any insight on the last two?

6) Who built the Church?
7) Why do we have to die?


Found an excellent resource [url="http://www.cathtruth.com/catholicbible/holyfam.htm"]http://www.cathtruth.com/catholicbible/holyfam.htm[/url]

[jswranch]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1129794' date='Nov 28 2006, 11:34 AM']
Ok, you guys were very helpful...any insight on the last two?

6) Who built the Church?
7) Why do we have to die?
[/quote]

6. Jesus founded the church. We are his co-workers in building up the kingdom.

7. We do not actually die. Our bodies die. We live forever. Some folks never experience death and are assumed: Enoch, Elijah, maybe Mary and the folks who will be 'raptured.'

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='jswranch' post='1129931' date='Nov 28 2006, 03:09 PM']
6. Jesus founded the church. We are his co-workers in building up the kingdom.

7. We do not actually die. Our bodies die. We live forever. Some folks never experience death and are assumed: Enoch, Elijah, maybe Mary and the folks who will be 'raptured.'
[/quote]

Yes, but see the way the question is phrased, that is, who "built" the church makes me wonder whether they are talking about the actual structure of the church or the Church founded by Christ.

Your second response is good, however, I really do not feel like getting into the whole idea of "rapture" especially given the ways in which we try to discourage the thinking of rapture the way in which those that are not Catholic believe it to be.

Thanks

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1129939' date='Nov 28 2006, 03:21 PM']Yes, but see the way the question is phrased, that is, who "built" the church makes me wonder whether they are talking about the actual structure of the church or the Church founded by Christ. [/quote]
you should just answer it both ways. if by "built" they mean who founded it or created it, than that is Jesus Christ (cf. Mt 16:18 --on this rock i will build my church). if by "built" they mean who put the pieces together or who added to it, then your answer is more multifaceted.

the apostles built the church insofar as they traveled to all the nations setting up churches and passing on true doctrine. the spirit built the church insofar as he preserved her teaching, guided her into all truth, and gave her the gifts of the Holy Spirit for the building of the church. i think you could say Jesus here too. afterall, Heb 3:3-4 says, "Yet Jesus has been counted worthy of as much more glory than Moses as the builder of a house has more honor than the house. (For every house is built by some one, but the builder of all things is God.)"

as for why we have to die, that's a tough question to answer in a way that kids will be able to understand. you could just say that, well, death is just a part of life. as living things, like plants or your puppy, get older they just start to get weaker and less able to do what they used to do, like jump and run and play. but, as human beings, we have hope that, when our body gets so weak that we can't live anymore, our spirit will go on to be with God in heaven. Jesus makes it so that we can be with him even after we die.

i hope that helps

pax christi,
phatcatholic

[jswranch]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1129939' date='Nov 28 2006, 01:21 PM']
Your second response is good, however, I really do not feel like getting into the whole idea of "rapture" especially given the ways in which we try to discourage the thinking of rapture the way in which those that are not Catholic believe it to be.
[/quote]
You do not have to talk about the 'rapture' to make a point on death. However, I would not shy away from a topic because others are errant in their doctrines. Should we shy from faith because of Luther and Sola Fide? Should we shy from predestination because of Calvin and Tulip? No. We believe in faith, predestination, and the 'rapture', but we believe in a different version. Be not afraid Father. Our understanding of the 'rapture' is beautiful. If you do not discuss our position, how will they know it?

([url="http://www.biblechristiansociety.com/download/mp3/rapture_and_the_bible.mp3"]Here is a great/fun/fast crash course MP3 on 'the rapture and the bible' by an EWTN guy.[/url]

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='jswranch' post='1130718' date='Nov 29 2006, 09:33 AM']
You do not have to talk about the 'rapture' to make a point on death. However, I would not shy away from a topic because others are errant in their doctrines. Should we shy from faith because of Luther and Sola Fide? Should we shy from predestination because of Calvin and Tulip? No. We believe in faith, predestination, and the 'rapture', but we believe in a different version. Be not afraid Father. Our understanding of the 'rapture' is beautiful. If you do not discuss our position, how will they know it?

([url="http://www.biblechristiansociety.com/download/mp3/rapture_and_the_bible.mp3"]Here is a great/fun/fast crash course MP3 on 'the rapture and the bible' by an EWTN guy.[/url]
[/quote]

No offense, but I find this post to be very condescending. I did not say I won't talk about the rapture I said I did not feel like getting into it. You have to remember I have one page on which I am to answer two questions. I would want more than that in order to explain something like the rapture especially with the connotations it has in this day and age.

God Bless

[Theologian in Training]

Thank you everyone....here is the Q&A for this weekend's bulletin

____________________

The next two questions are quite unique in that they are serious questions but it is easy tell were asked in complete innocence. A reminder that the questions are not those posed by adults but children. In fact, I really like the first question because it truly is something only a 3rd grader would be able to think of. With that said, here are two of the final three questions I have been given.

Why did Mary have to marry Joseph to have Jesus?

Mary did not have to marry Joseph in order to have Jesus, rather, she married Joseph in order to be obedient to the customs and laws of the time and further to ensure that she would not be killed. For, you see if a woman was found to be pregnant, but was not married, it was very bad, and she would have to go to the courts and her sentence could possibly have been death. Also, although it is not this way today, during the time, a woman could not own property or have a job, so she needed someone who could provide for her. Finally, in terms of practicality, and the way in which God designed it, He wanted a child to be brought up in a family, with a mother and a father.

To get a little more technical, however, we also need to understand the customs of the time with regard to marriage and something known as betrothal. Betrothal was kind of like an engagement, that we have today, but, at the same time, just like a marriage as we have today. Let me explain, in Jewish custom if a couple was betrothed to one another, there was a solemn contract that was established and from the point of the betrothal itself, the man and woman were known as husband and wife. The difference, however, is that even though to all appearances they were indeed married, as we understand it today, they would not live together until after the actual marriage ceremony. This is why Joseph would have had to issue a bill of divorce. Furthermore, since they were essentially married, it was not uncommon for the woman to be pregnant during this time and would not have been scandalous to others. The marriage then was little more than a social custom because the actual betrothal is when the man and woman became husband and wife.

Who built the Church?

This question is a little misleading because of the word “built.” If it is a question as to who physically built the church, that would have been contractors, architects and construction workers. However, if the question is who “founded” the Church, then that would be Christ and His Apostles. Since it is not specific, I am going to assume that the question is who “founded” Church.

The Church was founded by Christ over 2000 years ago and it began with the words we hear in the Gospel of St. Matthew (16:18) “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it,” and this passage, in particular, refers to whom He is giving the task of continuing His Church on earth, St. Peter, the first Pope. However, it was not just St. Peter’s task to found the Church on his own, no, rather, it was all of the Apostles as well. This is what is known as Apostolic Tradition, that is, the handing down of the faith from one generation to the next. In fact, in St. Matthew (28:19-20) we hear Jesus commanding them for this task: “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." And further on in 2 Thess. (2:15) “So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.”

Their task then was to carry on the teachings of Christ by bringing this message to all the nations in all the world, and, as Christians today, this task is still carried out by the bishops and priests and by all the faithful as co-workers for God’s Kingdom.

Fr. Brian

[jswranch]

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1130833' date='Nov 29 2006, 11:24 AM']
No offense, but I find this post to be very condescending. I did not say I won't talk about the rapture I said I did not feel like getting into it. You have to remember I have one page on which I am to answer two questions. I would want more than that in order to explain something like the rapture especially with the connotations it has in this day and age.

God Bless
[/quote]
Oops, my fault. This where I got off " I did not say I won't talk about the rapture I said I did not feel like getting into it."

Sorry.

[quote name='Theologian in Training' post='1130861' date='Nov 29 2006, 12:39 PM']
Thank you everyone....here is the Q&A for this weekend's bulletin
[/quote]
Fr. Brian,
I was under the impression that the betrothal was a product of Joseph and a few other Jewish men deciding to take the Temple virgins under their care in a celibate relationship, since the Temple could no longer house them. I got this from the 'Protoevangelium of James' etc. If I am off, let me know.

Finally, I wish our parish bulletin had more Q&A like this.

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='jswranch' post='1130869' date='Nov 29 2006, 03:04 PM']
I was under the impression that the betrothal was a product of Joseph and a few other Jewish men deciding to take the Temple virgins under their care in a celibate relationship, since the Temple could no longer house them. I got this from the 'Protoevangelium of James' etc. If I am off, let me know.

Finally, I wish our parish bulletin had more Q&A like this.
[/quote]
well, that is one tradition, but no Catholic is obliged to hold it.