If You Are Not For Us You Are Against Us?

[Balthazor]

I really do not understand this deep loathing of each other between Christian denominations and those who call themselves "non-denominational" , . Sometimes I am distressed at the lack of solidarity between Christians. Instead of working together on anything it seems that many people are just bent on preaching against other groups......


Mark 9
38 John said to him, "Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us."
39 Jesus replied, "Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak ill of me.
40 For whoever is not against us is for us.

So what is it folks, how do you interpret this? Bcause I sure get the feeling that a lot of people think it is the other way around, you know :if you are not for us you are against us.

Edited November 24, 2006 by Balthazor

[Winchester]

Actually, Jesus said it both ways.

[DangerBoy]

oops

Edited November 24, 2006 by Once Was Lost

[DangerBoy]

[quote name='Balthazor' post='1127018' date='Nov 24 2006, 12:17 PM']
I really do not understand this deep loathing of each other between Christian denominations and those who call themselves "non-denominational" , . Sometimes I am distressed at the lack of solidarity between Christians. Instead of working together on anything it seems that many people are just bent on preaching against other groups......
Mark 9
38 John said to him, "Teacher, we saw someone driving out demons in your name, and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us."
39 Jesus replied, "Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak ill of me.
40 For whoever is not against us is for us.
[/quote]

I think it is really for one reason. Pride. People not willing to admit that they aren't perfect, so they assume there own infallability and devlope of blind hatred of anyone else who is different.

Now before anyone jumps to conclutions, this does not mean sacrificing our values, especially as Catholics. We can still be strong and sure in what we believe, just not so close minded that we don't aknowledge the truth that other Christen sects hold. Namley a belief in Jesus Christ as redeemer. And remeber that ecumentical unity is definantly an area that Satan attacks. We have to focus on the positve!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1127033' date='Nov 24 2006, 12:48 PM']
Actually, Jesus said it both ways.
[/quote]
Which fits in perfectly with the whole "no lukewarmness" thing.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='Winchester' post='1127033' date='Nov 24 2006, 12:48 PM']Actually, Jesus said it both ways.[/quote]As Providence would have it, I was reading the 12th chapter of the Gospel of St. Matthew last night ([url="http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew12.htm#v30"]link[/url]):
[quote name='Matt 12:30']Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters.[/quote]

[Katholikos]

"Whoever is not with me is aganst me."

"Whoever is not against us is for us."

"For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved" Rm 10:13.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven . . ."Mt 7:21.

That's why we need an infallible teacher, the Church and her Magisterium.

=========================
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

[prose]

Yup.

[Balthazor]

OH NO!!! Clint Eastwood is back!

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1127118' date='Nov 24 2006, 04:58 PM']
"Whoever is not with me is aganst me."

"Whoever is not against us is for us."

"For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved" Rm 10:13.

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven . . ."Mt 7:21.

That's why we need an infallible teacher, the Church and her Magisterium.

=========================
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!
[/quote]You DON'T have an infallible teacher in the Church or her Magisterium in the sense that you dream it is! Sorry, but face reality. Read a bit of Church History and figure out that it's human politics that present majority rule.

Or tell me which ordained priest or ordained Bishop or ordained Curia bureaucrat or elected Pope is infallible. Even the Roman Catholic definition of Infallibility is a tortured extrapolation that can't be definitevely identified in X decree or Papal 'Bull' or Catechism.

For example, with all the learned brainiacs here, let's get a definitive answer if the Catechism is 'infallible' or not... LOL

Edited November 25, 2006 by Anomaly

[Winchester]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1127227' date='Nov 24 2006, 08:29 PM']
You DON'T have an infallible teacher in the Church or her Magisterium in the sense that you dream it is! Sorry, but face reality. Read a bit of Church History and figure out that it's human politics that present majority rule.

Or tell me which ordained priest or ordained Bishop or ordained Curia bureaucrat or elected Pope is infallible. Even the Roman Catholic definition of Infallibility is a tortured extrapolation that can't be definitevely identified in X decree or Papal 'Bull' or Catechism.

For example, with all the learned brainiacs here, let's get a definitive answer if the Catechism is 'infallible' or not... LOL
[/quote]
Ah yes, none of us have ever read a bit of history. We think that our clergy have always beem good people above reproach. You have opened my eyes!

Human difficulty does not negate truth.

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1127227' date='Nov 24 2006, 09:29 PM']
You DON'T have an infallible teacher in the Church or her Magisterium in the sense that you dream it is! Sorry, but face reality. Read a bit of Church History and figure out that it's human politics that present majority rule.

Or tell me which ordained priest or ordained Bishop or ordained Curia bureaucrat or elected Pope is infallible. Even the Roman Catholic definition of Infallibility is a tortured extrapolation that can't be definitevely identified in X decree or Papal 'Bull' or Catechism.

For example, with all the learned brainiacs here, let's get a definitive answer if the Catechism is 'infallible' or not... LOL
[/quote]I don't know whether the Catechism itself is considered unfallible or not, but I am certain that the teachings within the CCC are infallible. I've posted your question in Q&A and we'll see what the "braniacs" have to say about it. Why does it matter? Isn't it enough to know that the teachings are infallible?

I am moved to pity every time I see one of your posts. You have pulled yourself and your family away from the Church that Christ founded for the salvation of the world and have encouraged others in apostasy. It is my constant prayer that nothing ever separates me from Christ and His Church. I would lose my soul. That was the state I was in when I found the Church, a lost soul, in the black pit of atheism. My God, have mercy.

May you find peace.

=================================
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

[Balthazor]

I want some protestant Action on this too.
where is mulls? where are our resident separated bretheran?

[Jaime]

[quote name='Balthazor' post='1127516' date='Nov 25 2006, 03:03 PM']
I want some protestant Action on this too.
where is mulls? where are our resident separated bretheran?
[/quote]


I dunno, you might just get kissy noises from the prots.

[Balthazor]

Don't make me haul off and give you a dirty look.

[mulls]

hi.


i've been walking with the Lord for 4.5 years, and active on the front lines of ministry for a majority of that time. through God's providence i have been able to meet so many different Christians from so many different places in this short amount of time. it's silly how many connections i've made, i never thought i'd be one of those guys who seems to know everyone, but that's how it broke for me.

in all honesty, i cannot think of a specific incident with a person or church that i visited where someone was preaching 'against' someone else or another denomination. i've never had anyone turned off to me because of the church i've attended, or ministries i've served with. when i meet a believer of any "flavor" (as my buddy euty says), there's usually that instant connection that can only be described as "fellowship," a word which we toss around too lightly sometimes.

and im talking people who are followers of Christ, not just those who label themselves Christians. when we meet, we know it.

Edited November 26, 2006 by mulls

[Katholikos]

[quote name='mulls' post='1127735' date='Nov 25 2006, 10:27 PM']
in all honesty, i cannot think of a specific incident with a person or church that i visited where someone was preaching 'against' someone else or another denomination. i've never had anyone turned off to me because of the church i've attended, or ministries i've served with. when i meet a believer of any "flavor" (as my buddy euty says), there's usually that instant connection that can only be described as "fellowship," a word which we toss around too lightly sometimes.

and im talking people who are followers of Christ, not just those who label themselves Christians. when we meet, we know it.
[/quote]Will the [b][i]real[/i][/b] "followers of Christ" please stand up?

We're not talking about 'flavors' -- vanilla or chocolate -- but about differences in basic beliefs about who Jesus is, what he taught, how he expects us to behave, and how one is "saved."

Who gets to decide who is a "real follower of Christ" and who is not?

----------------------------------------
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

[mulls]

[quote]We're not talking about 'flavors' -- vanilla or chocolate -- but about differences in basic beliefs about who Jesus is, what he taught, how he expects us to behave, and how one is "saved."
[/quote]


these basic beliefs are exactly the ones that have never been in question with anyone i've come across in the context of church/ministry/relationship/friendship

[123]

Well, along with my disagreement with denomination,[sarcasm] every protestant pastor with his congregation singing in unison Frank Sinatra's song " I did it my way" seems to sum up protestant Christianity[/sarcasm]. Along with the lines of "non-denominationalism" seems to be contradictory, because no non denominationalistic church agrees on anything. Many friends of mine went to several non denom churches and none of them agreed. It doesnt matter if they plaster it on their signs infront of their churches or engrain it into the mind of their congregation and their children it is still a denomination.

[Katholikos]

[quote name='mulls' post='1128019' date='Nov 26 2006, 01:55 PM']
these basic beliefs are exactly the ones that have never been in question with anyone i've come across in the context of church/ministry/relationship/friendship
[/quote]Are the AOG members "real" Christians? If so, why did you leave them for the Brethren?

Without knowing which "flavor" (to use your word) of Brethren you are, we can't tell what you believe. Which beliefs are "basic"? Who gets to choose which are "basic" and which are not? I'm sure you know that there are several kinds of Brethren, all split from each other over doctrinal disagreements.

You're a very nice guy, Mulls. Sorry to be such a critic, but Protestantism is a guessing game. Been there. Done that.

Please come home. We're saving the fatted calf just for you. You'd be great working with FOCUS.
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Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

Edited November 26, 2006 by Katholikos