"the Christianity Of History Is Not Protestantism"

[Katholikos]

"And this one thing at least is certain; whatever history teaches, whatever it omits, whatever it exaggerates or extenuates, whatever it says and unsays, at least the Christianity of history is not Protestantism. If ever there were a safe truth, it is this." (John Henry Newman, [i]An Essay on the Development of Christine Doctrine,[/i] Image Books, 1960, p. 34).

"To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant." ([i]ibid,[/i] p. 35)

John Henry Newman was a famous Anglican clergyman. He set out to prove what he considered to be the errors of Catholicism. At the end of his lengthy research, he wrote his [i]Essay[/i]. When he had finished, he put down his pen. called a priest, and became a Catholic. .

Comments? Agree? Disagree?

[pcabibi]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1133822' date='Dec 2 2006, 07:17 PM']
"And this one thing at least is certain; whatever history teaches, whatever it omits, whatever it exaggerates or extenuates, whatever it says and unsays, at least the Christianity of history is not Protestantism. If ever there were a safe truth, it is this." (John Henry Newman, [i]An Essay on the Development of Christine Doctrine,[/i] Image Books, 1960, p. 34).

"To be deep in history is to cease to be a Protestant." ([i]ibid,[/i] p. 35)

John Henry Newman was a famous Anglican clergyman. He set out to prove what he considered to be the errors of Catholicism. At the end of his lengthy research, he wrote his [i]Essay[/i]. When he had finished, he put down his pen. called a priest, and became a Catholic. .

Comments? Agree? Disagree?
[/quote]

Disagree. The early christians of history didn't even have a bible. they had a numerous collection of books. Of which, a multitude of the books were omitted from the bible, by the cardnials, in its early stages of construction. There are books about enoch that were ommited, books about eve getting tempted a 2nd time in a river by satan in angel form and not that of a serpent... and books about the ark being in etheopia which were ommited until they were uncoverd in the african bibles.

Not saying I agree or disagree with what books were kept and which ones were ommited, but the early christians were neither protestant or catholic. They were just people. Jews and gentiles.

Edited December 3, 2006 by JClives

[Starets]

Depends on how that "Christianity of History" is taught. I took a History of Christianity course when I was at what is now Trinity Western University in BC. The syllabus made it look like it would be a general overview of the history of christianity from beginnings to the present.

It wasn't. It was something I would later find out is called a "Believer's Church" perspective. In practice, that meant going from Constantine to Luther in 3 lectures. And the one lecture that spanned the end of his section on Constantine to the beginning of his section on Luther? Most of it was spent ridiculing Pope St. Celestine V. St. Benedict, St. Thomas Aquinas, the Benedictines, the mendicant orders of the 12th century, and dozens of other people, places, and events were completely ignored.

So, I would say to John Henry Newman, "don't count on it."

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='JClives' post='1133833' date='Dec 2 2006, 07:54 PM']
Disagree. The early christians of history didn't even have a bible. they had a numerous collection of books. Of which, a multitude of the books were omitted from the bible, by the cardnials, in its early stages of construction. There are books about enoch that were ommited, books about eve getting tempted a 2nd time in a river by satan in angel form and not that of a serpent... and books about the ark being in etheopia which were ommited until they were uncoverd in the african bibles.

Not saying I agree or disagree with what books were kept and which ones were ommited, but the early christians were neither protestant or catholic. They were just people. Jews and gentiles.
[/quote]
They were catholic christians for over 1500 years. until the deformations took place.

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='JClives' post='1133833' date='Dec 2 2006, 06:54 PM']
Disagree. The early christians of history didn't even have a bible. they had a numerous collection of books. Of which, a multitude of the books were omitted from the bible, by the cardnials, in its early stages of construction. There are books about enoch that were ommited, books about eve getting tempted a 2nd time in a river by satan in angel form and not that of a serpent... and books about the ark being in etheopia which were ommited until they were uncoverd in the african bibles.

Not saying I agree or disagree with what books were kept and which ones were ommited, but the early christians were neither protestant or catholic. They were just people. Jews and gentiles.
[/quote]


I just asked a well-respected protestant patristics scholar about this and he said you have been feed some bias polemic information.

[Katholikos]

[quote name='JClives' post='1133833' date='Dec 2 2006, 07:54 PM']
Disagree. The early christians of history didn't even have a bible. they had a numerous collection of books. Of which, a multitude of the books were omitted from the bible, by the cardnials, in its early stages of construction. There are books about enoch that were ommited, books about eve getting tempted a 2nd time in a river by satan in angel form and not that of a serpent... and books about the ark being in etheopia which were ommited until they were uncoverd in the african bibles.

Not saying I agree or disagree with what books were kept and which ones were ommited, but the early christians were neither protestant or catholic. They were just people. Jews and gentiles.
[/quote]What has the canon of the Bible -- which wasn't settled until the end of the fourth Christian century and beginning of the fifth -- have to do with the question? Jesus didn't leave us a Bible -- He left us a Church. That Church was called 'Catholic' (universal) in writing in A.D. 107.

Christianity began when Jesus Christ established the Catholic Church and sent the Holy Spirit at Pentecost to guide it.

=========================
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

[MichaelFilo]

Anyone who studies history would have trouble proving the Church was anything but Catholic. It's pretty easy to say that, but lets look at some proof.

Of all the vast writings of Protestantism which propogate each preacher/author's own views, there is an unnoticably small number which deal with the history of Christianity, and of that number, even less which will discuss the writings of Christians outside of the Bible from the early centuries. You would never, ever, find a collection of first century Christian writings in a Protestant book store, no matter how vast the inventory, unless it had someone's thoughts and opinions about the books. While it is sad to say it is nearly as hard to find it in Catholic stores nowadays, one may find these works still.

There is a very good reason for this, early Christianity is Catholic Christianity. And if not that, then certainly it is far removed from Protestant Christianity. Surely, a Protestant would never call it Catholic (because of the view of Catholicism that is given in Protestantism), but they would be hard pressed to say the early Christians reflected Protestant beliefs. I've come across a few books that do, but only after picking and choosing only the choicest verses. The big issue of the Eucharist is almost always comically discussed in such books simply because if one would read the whole letter it would be a vivid defense of the Catholic belief. This applies to Anything from the "Letter to the Romans" by Ignatius, to the "Against Heresies" by Irenaeus.