Infallibility

[jrndveritatis]

First off, this is not a question as to whether infallibility exists. Obviously it does.

Rather, what are the specific requirements for a teaching or action to be infallible?

Are all council documents infallible?

Are canonizations infallible statements that a person is in heaven?

Was the Syllabaus of Errors (all or part) infallible?

Where can I get info to prove to doubters that the teaching banning contraception is infallible?

[megamattman1]

www.catholic.com says it's been infallibly declared as far as contraception goes. i'm not sure why rhetoric persists saying that it's not infallibly declared. unless that sites wrong, if that's they case, it must just be rumors.

[PhatPhred]

Rather, what are the specific requirements for a teaching or action to be infallible?

The most recent dogmatic exposition of the infallibility of the Church can be found in Vatican II's Dogmatic Constitution on the Church LUMEN GENTIUM, paragraph 25 (and see also paragraph 12).

Where can I get info to prove to doubters that the teaching banning contraception is infallible?

All you have to do is to find a teaching from the magisterium (i.e., by a bishop or the Pope) that banning contraception is infallible. If this is actually true, then that shouldn't be too hard to find. After all, I managed to find a statement from the Vatican curia that the teaching on not being able to ordain women priests is infallible.

[PhatPhred]

www.catholic.com says it's been infallibly declared as far as contraception goes.

This is the same web site that Legion pulled a text on just war "doctrine" from that justified dissent against the Pope's teaching on the Iraqi war. You need to find the infallibility of the ban on contraception taught by the authentic magisterium of the Church, not some web site with "Catholic" in its name that clearly has its own agenda.

[Don John of Austria]

Didn't I answer this already for you? All council statements are not infallable but only those which meet certian requirements in form ond topic. this doesn't mean there are not some which are open to debate there are.

Formal canonizations as have been done for the last thousand years are infallable.

Contraceptions infallable teaching would probably come under the Ordinary magestirium-- being taught by the whole Church for many many years.

The Syllabus of Errors is infallable.

I'll Post more in a minute.

[Don John of Austria]

The requirements for papal infallabilityare as follows" QUOTE

The pontiff must teach in his public and official capacity as pastor and doctor of all Christians, not merely in his private capacity as a theologian, preacher ar allocutionist, nor in his capacity as a temporal prince or as a mere ordinary of the Diocese of Rome. It must be clear that he speaks as spiritual head of the Church universal.

Then it is only when, in this capacity, he teaches some doctrine of faith or morals that he is infallible (see below, IV).

Further it must be sufficiently evident that he intends to teach with all the fullness and finality of his supreme Apostolic authority, in other words that he wishes to determine some point of doctrine in an absolutely final and irrevocable way, or to define it in the technical sense (see DEFINITION). These are well-recognized formulas by means of which the defining intention may be manifested.

Finally for an ex cathedra decision it must be clear that the pope intends to bind the whole Church. To demand internal assent from all the faithful to his teaching under pain of incurring spiritual shipwreck (naufragium fidei) according to the expression used by Pius IX in defining the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin. Theoretically, this intention might be made sufficiently clear in a papal decision which is addressed only to a particular Church; but in present day conditions, when it is so easy to communicate with the most distant parts of the earth and to secure a literally universal promulgation of papal acts, the presumption is that unless the pope formally addresses the whole Church in the recognized official way, he does not intend his doctrinal teaching to be held by all the faithful as ex cathedra and infallible "

[PedroX]

Phat Fred,

Are you implying that the Pope's thoughts on the Iraqi war were infallible?

veritas,

John the XX III (of blessed memory) issued a decree on contraception shortly after Vatican II. I'll try and find it for you.

peace...

[megamattman1]

[hyperdulia again]

I don't think Humanae Vitae is infallible, I'm not going to publically say why, it would lead to a fist fight, but the Church's teaching on contraception is very clear and has been clearly stated and restated frrom at least the third century.

[Guest lundercovera]

I managed to find a statement from the Vatican curia that the teaching on not being able to ordain women priests is infallible

see now that's one thing for sure that i heard was not infallible!

nope, that's infallible. check the debate in the reading room.

[Truth]

First off, this is not a question as to whether infallibility exists. Obviously it does.

Rather, what are the specific requirements for a teaching or action to be infallible?

Are all council documents infallible?

Are canonizations infallible statements that a person is in heaven?

Was the Syllabaus of Errors (all or part) infallible?

Where can I get info to prove to doubters that the teaching banning contraception is infallible?

infallible---is to widely used in the Catholics Church. The Bible and other Inspired writing of God are infallible, The Holy Spirit is what make them so!

[Truth]

This is the same web site that Legion pulled a text on just war "doctrine" from that justified dissent against the Pope's teaching on the Iraqi war. You need to find the infallibility of the ban on contraception taught by the authentic magisterium of the Church, not some web site with "Catholic" in its name that clearly has its own agenda.

The officer of the Catholic Church make thing infallible or fallible because they say so. You Guy don't see anything wrong with that? I your Church Father agree that man should indeed marry man is it ok?

[Truth]

The requirements for papal infallabilityare as follows" QUOTE

The pontiff must teach in his public and official capacity as pastor and doctor of all Christians, not merely in his private capacity as a theologian, preacher ar allocutionist, nor in his capacity as a temporal prince or as a mere ordinary of the Diocese of Rome. It must be clear that he speaks as spiritual head of the Church universal.

Then it is only when, in this capacity, he teaches some doctrine of faith or morals that he is infallible (see below, IV).

Further it must be sufficiently evident that he intends to teach with all the fullness and finality of his supreme Apostolic authority, in other words that he wishes to determine some point of doctrine in an absolutely final and irrevocable way, or to define it in the technical sense (see DEFINITION). These are well-recognized formulas by means of which the defining intention may be manifested.

Finally for an ex cathedra decision it must be clear that the pope intends to bind the whole Church. To demand internal assent from all the faithful to his teaching under pain of incurring spiritual shipwreck (naufragium fidei) according to the expression used by Pius IX in defining the Immaculate Conception of the Blessed Virgin. Theoretically, this intention might be made sufficiently clear in a papal decision which is addressed only to a particular Church; but in present day conditions, when it is so easy to communicate with the most distant parts of the earth and to secure a literally universal promulgation of papal acts, the presumption is that unless the pope formally addresses the whole Church in the recognized official way, he does not intend his doctrinal teaching to be held by all the faithful as ex cathedra and infallible "

Is that like being compelled to beleive something because he say so. Compelled me forced correct. God give us free will but the pope take it back.

[Truth]

I don't think Humanae Vitae is infallible, I'm not going to publically say why, it would lead to a fist fight, but the Church's teaching on contraception is very clear and has been clearly stated and restated frrom at least the third century.

Tell us you reason? I would like to know.

[jrndveritatis]

I managed to find a statement from the Vatican curia that the teaching on not being able to ordain women priests is infallible.

see now that's one thing for sure that i heard was not infallible!

I have definitely been told that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis is infallble.

Also, Don John, kind of the reason I asked this question is because I wasn't clear on what council documents were infallible and which were not. Could you clarify that? Also, was the Syllabus of Errors a council document or a papal declaration?

infallible---is to widely used in the Catholics Church. The Bible and other Inspired writing of God are infallible, The Holy Spirit is what make them so!

Of course the Church teaches the inerrancy of the Bible on matters of faith and morals. As for other inspired works, I don't know how you know if they are inspired or not without the authority of the Church. After all, the only reason the Bible is free from errors in faith and morals is the Catholic Church picked the books to be in the Bible.

[Anna]

Larry,

The very reason that some of what the pope states is infallible and some of things he states are fallible is because sometimes he's speaking with the Authority Christ gave him to guide the Church, and he is aided by the Holy Spirit when he makes infallible pronouncements. Other times, he's just talking like a regular kinda guy who just happens to be popel

Like this: infallible Artificial contraception is a grave sin.

fallible Kinda cloudy today, looks like rain.

Do you see the difference?

The pope is considered infallible only when he is speaking in his official Christ-appointed authority, and only when he is speaking on matters of faith and morals.

I hope that helps to clear up a bit of confusion.

Pax Christi. <><

[PhatPhred]

Phat Fred,

Are you implying that the Pope's thoughts on the Iraqi war were infallible?

No, my position is that both Pope John Paul II's teaching on the Iraqi war and Pope Paul VI's teaching in Humanae Vitae belong to the non-infallible papal magisterium to which faithful Catholics are bound to reverently and sincerely adhere with a religious submission of mind and will.

[PhatPhred]

Here is the statement from Cardinal Ratzinger that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis is infallible because of the ordinary and universal magisterium.