Defending Western Culture

[PedroX]

I found this article and am wondering what others think. Mainly, is western civilization under attack, and if so is it worth defending?

Interview with Gimli

edited to fix link!

peace...

[jmjtina]

:huh:

hey pedro, the link isn't working.

[Ellenita]

Can't get the link either.........maybe it's been defeated already!!!

:lol:

[Sojourner]

I found this interview -- is this the one, Pedro?

Interview with Gimli

[PedroX]

Sojourner, no.

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/02...-name_page.html

This is it. Stupid linkin' technology!

peace...

[PedroX]

Aahh!! That doesn't seem to work either.

However, if you really want to see it, ( and I recommend it) try going through this link! Scroll about half way down.

http://www.markshea.blogspot.com/

peace...

[PatrickRitaMichael]

I couldn't find what you were talking about b/c there was a ton of stuff on that last link. But personally, I don't like Western Culture. The only good things that we have isn't cultural, it's religous. The liberty, equal rights, and freedoms we enjoy are a direct result of the Christian faith. The culture is secular, w/ some religious influence, but I don't particularly like where 'secular' society is headed anyway...So whether or not Western culture dies, I could care less. (No offense to anyone!!)

[God Conquers]

I think he's right.

[M.SIGGA]

when i was in france last year, there was a report that in some towns in the netherlands and in germany there are no more children. i am a strong defender of western culture, but it seems to me that the doctrines and freedoms and priviledges of western culture are turning on the western people. our knowledge and culture has evolved society into a people with nothing left to live for. people from the east and southern hemisphere are simply filling in the gaps left open by westerners. in europe there is a flow of middle eastern people who are exploited and used for odd jobs, similar to the latin americans who immigrate to the united states and are treated same way. the influence of their cultures on western life is a direct result of western people exercising their various freedoms, such as contraception, career planning, remaining single, and remaining childless.

[PatrickRitaMichael]

the influence of their cultures on western life is a direct result of western people exercising their various freedoms, such as contraception, career planning, remaining single, and remaining childless.

I would call that an abuse of freedom, not an exercise of freedom.

I know what you mean about the decreasing populations, though. France is all freaked out b/c they LOVE their culture and they don't like that so many immigrants are coming in. But what can you do when no one has children? Strange, though, that the countries w/ the lowest birth rates are Catholic, Spain, France, and Italy.... how does that work?

[jrndveritatis]

But personally, I don't like Western Culture. The only good things that we have isn't cultural, it's religous. The liberty, equal rights, and freedoms we enjoy are a direct result of the Christian faith. The culture is secular, w/ some religious influence, but I don't particularly like where 'secular' society is headed anyway...So whether or not Western culture dies, I could care less. (No offense to anyone!!)

It depends on your definition of Western Culture. If by Western Culture you mean postmodernism and moral relativism as found currently in Europe and North America, I agree with you that this is not worth defending. In fact we should be attacking it.

However, I think what Rhys-Davies is speaking of when he says Western Culture is the idea of a civilization based on Judeo-Christian values and a classically influenced system of law from the Greeks and Romans, especially as embodied in democratic republicanism. This is certainly worth defending. From the West have come the ideas that all men are equal before the law, that a republic is the most practical form of government, and that freedom (to do what is right) must be defended. This Western culture is embodied in the works of men such as Madison, Lincoln, C.S. Lewis, and J.R.R. Tolkien.

This is the Western culture attacked by the elite today, an elite which stands for relativism and tolerance of evil. Therefore, I will defend this Western culture.

[PedroX]

Patrick Rita,

Do you know what you don't like about western culture? Is it the philosophy dating back to Aristotle, or democracy dating back to Athens? Do you not like the Catholic Church, the champion of western culture and values? Perhaps it is the emphasis on "liberal arts education" that you don't care for? Please be careful to defien what exactly it is that you don't like about Western culture before you throw the baby out with the bath water.

peace...

[M.SIGGA]

Strange, though, that the countries w/ the lowest birth rates are Catholic, Spain, France, and Italy.... how does that work?

I took a lecture last year on Latin American Sociology and it's also wierd that Catholic nations also have the some of greatest number of abortions performed. He blamed lack of contraception because he was an anti-Catholic ex-priest, without taking into consideration latin american cultural influences, but that doesn't excuse the abortion rates in Catholic Western Europe.

It also baffled me how almost all television in Rome turns into porn after 9pm.

[God Conquers]

I'm not surpirsed, Italy is one of the most faithless countries in the world.

[PatrickRitaMichael]

Patrick Rita,

Do you know what you don't like about western culture? Is it the philosophy dating back to Aristotle, or democracy dating back to Athens? Do you not like the Catholic Church, the champion of western culture and values? Perhaps it is the emphasis on "liberal arts education" that you don't care for? Please be careful to defien what exactly it is that you don't like about Western culture before you throw the baby out with the bath water.

peace...

I don't hate Western culture. I like Western religion, if you define it as Jewish and Catholic. But everything outside religon, I don't care so much for. Not that everything is bad, there are good things about it, but I wouldn't care what happened to 'culture' as long as religion was there and whatever freedoms came w/ that. Basically I love the Church and would die defending it. But as far as Western culture goes, I would not defend it, except for the parts reflecting God. Hmm... this isn't coming out the way I want it to... :huh:

[PedroX]

Patrick R.,

Again, I need to ask for clarification. Are you speaking of "pop" culture? Without western culture, there would be no concept of human rights, there would be no concept of equality regardless of race. There would be no free press. There would be little art featuring human forms. I'm fairly certain that you are not against these things, but want to make sure you know what is really meant by the term "Western Culture".

peace...

[PatrickRitaMichael]

  Without western culture, there would be no concept of human rights, there would be no concept of equality regardless of race.  There would be no free press.  There would be little art featuring human forms

Pedro,

I think you mean 'without the Church' there would be no concept of human rights... etc. Those grand philosophical ideas about freedom, equality, and intrinsic worth are borne from the Church. So, whether western culture dies or not, as long as the Church is around, there can be freedom, equality, etc.

(I think you also might want to rethink the statement about little art featuring human forms. There is Indian art that goes back thousands of years featuring human forms.)

I think the way that I think of western culture is different from the way you think of western culture b/c you grew up within it. I grew up inside and out, being raised in an Indian community in the US and so I can honestly say that the only valuable things in Western Culture are influences of God, everything else just exists (it's neutral) and it doesn't matter if "everything else" exists or not. That's just my opinion, anyway.

Long live the Church :D

[M.SIGGA]

I'm just asking, would there be so many of the freedoms we have today without the Church, like if it didn't exist? Most of the writers of democracy, free speech, freedom of religion, suffrage, anti-slavery, etc. were introduced into society by humanists, secularists, and free thinkers. Without these what would the world be like if there was only the Church?

[PatrickRitaMichael]

I'm just asking, would there be so many of the freedoms we have today without the Church, like if it didn't exist? Most of the writers of democracy, free speech, freedom of religion, suffrage, anti-slavery, etc. were introduced into society by humanists, secularists, and free thinkers. Without these what would the world be like if there was only the Church?

But those free thinkers were products of Western Culture, which was influenced by the Church. Without the Church, there would be no freedom. Without Western Culture, I would say freedom could still exist. But that's playing the 'what if' game and since I'm not God, I can't say how the world 'would have been if...'

[PedroX]

Patrick R.

Please note that I said that there would be "little art featuring the human form" Western and Far eastern (asian) art are the two major art movements that featured realistic representation of the human form.

Secondly, many of these freedoms that you would credit the church with are actually older than the church. Please look into ancient Greek and Roman philosophy and literature. After Constatine, yes Western and Catholic Culture became intrinsically linked. You can not separate them, but do not pretend that Western culture did not exist before that.

You would like to paint me as ethnocentric, and I think that frankly thats a pretty cheap card to play. Please reaxamine your disdain for all that is highest about our culture. Please also recognize that while you can not separate Western culture from Catholicism, that does not make them the same thing.

peace...