Are The Skin Cells Of Christ To Be Adored

[Resurrexi]

[quote]This is a totally ridiculous thread, imo.

Why on earth would one pray to "the Most Sacred Skin Cells of Christ"???
That sounds like something out of a bad Monty Python skit, rather than any kind of possible serious Catholic devotion.

One has a devotion to the Most Sacred Heart because it is seen as the seat of Christ's infinite love for us. Skin cells would have no such significance.

What's next, praying to "the Most Sacred Toenails of Christ"? "The Most Sacred Small Intestine of Christ"??

And when dead matter leaves the body, it is no longer part of that person in a metaphysical sense. Once the cells are dead, they are no longer the body of Christ. [/quote]

The Church does not agree with you on the thought that dead Parts of Christ's Human Nature no longer are united to His Divinity hypostatically. Did you not even read my last post? The Church, in her devotions to the Sacred Heart is not meerly His Heart in the metaphorical sense, but His Heart in the corporeal sense.

Edited January 9, 2007 by StThomasMore

[Norseman82]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1158597' date='Jan 7 2007, 10:57 PM']
Actually, where the relics of Christ's Skin Cells are does not concern me. When I made this poll I was just trying to come up with some obscure human cell, but skin cells were especially appealing since they are shed very frequently.[/quote]

Well, what brought this question up in the first place, then??? Is there some practical application to the theoretical here that you are trying to communicate?

Edited January 9, 2007 by Norseman82

[Resurrexi]

Yes, I'm trying to communicate that all the Parts of Christ's Human Nature are to be adored with Latria.

[thessalonian]

[quote]Thessalonian, you are incorrect, it has been defined that Christ's Divinity remained was not separated from His Body when He died (See the quote from the Roman Catechism in my previous post), therefore, It would not separate from His dead Skin Cells.[/quote]

Apparently you didn't read very carefuly. I never spoke about his body when he died. I was speaking, somewhat ridiculously I might add, of all the skin cells that wash away in our daily lives. Was each one of them his divinity as it rotted in to the ground? That is all I was saying. Otherwise we could worship the groun where he walked and his blood spilled in Jerusalem. That ground would be God today. It's silly.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1159787' date='Jan 9 2007, 08:50 AM']
Apparently you didn't read very carefuly. I never spoke about his body when he died. I was speaking, somewhat ridiculously I might add, of all the skin cells that wash away in our daily lives. Was each one of them his divinity as it rotted in to the ground? That is all I was saying. Otherwise we could worship the groun where he walked and his blood spilled in Jerusalem. That ground would be God today. It's silly.
[/quote]

If His Body contained His Whole Divinity even after He died, so would the parts which died while He was still alive (as the prayers to His Precious Blood which was spilt for us show). There are theories which I can think about that would explain how we could adore these Parts of His Human Nature.

1) When the Parts of His Human Nature died and fell off, they remained united to His Divinity until They were no longer able to be recognised as what They were. They would have been long ago desinigrated so would no longer be recognisable, and therefore, no longer to be adored with Latria. 2) They were ressurected with the Main Part of the Body of Christ and once more were joined not only His Divinity, but also with His soul. Then when Christ ascended to Heaven, all the former Parts which were formerly dead, but now part of the living main Part of His Body, ascended with Him as they were physically connected to the Main Part of His Body. 3) The Parts of His Human Nature which fell of Him are still in the places where They were, but we know not where they be, so we cannot name where they are and adore them as we would the Holy Eucharist which is in front of us in the tabernacle, but They are still worthy of adoration and can be adored from anywhere in the world by prayers to Them.

If any of these theories are contrary to the teachings of the Church, please inform me.

[thessalonian]

Interesting thought. I guess if he was sinless his flesh would not decompose. However the Eucharist at some point no longer contains his divinity so I am not sure how that all fits.

[Socrates]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1159444' date='Jan 8 2007, 11:13 PM']
The Church does not agree with you on the thought that dead Parts of Christ's Human Nature no longer are united to His Divinity hypostatically. Did you not even read my last post? The Church, in her devotions to the Sacred Heart is not meerly His Heart in the metaphorical sense, but His Heart in the corporeal sense.
[/quote]
Once something is dead, it is no longer part of a person. It is no longer informed by a soul, and begins to decay and become non-living particles.

The Sacred Heart is part of the Living Christ, not dead matter.

What I am saying is based on Thomistic philosophy. If the "Church does not agree with me", please provide sources to back it up, rather than just claiming to speak for the Church.

Thessalonian does a pretty good job of explaining what I am getting at here.

[Resurrexi]

[quote]Once something is dead, it is no longer part of a person. It is no longer informed by a soul, and begins to decay and become non-living particles. [/quote]

The Dead Body of Our Lord was still hypostatically united to His divinity during the three days during which It lay in the tomb while His Soul descended into Limbo:

[quote name='The Catechsim of the Council of Trent']Moreover as Christ was true and perfect man, He of course was capable of dying. Now man dies when the soul is separate the body. When, therefore, we say that Jesus died, we mean that His soul was disunited from His body. We do not admit however, that the Divinity was separated from His body. On the contrary, we firmly believe and profess that when His soul was dissociated from His body, His Divinity continued always united both to His body in the sepulcher and to His soul in limbo. It became the Son of God to die, that, through death, he might destroy him who had the empire of death that is the devil, and might deliver them, who through the fear of death were all their lifetime subject to servitude.[/quote]

I would also argue that even after we die, our body still belongs to us, for at the End of Time our souls shall be reunited with our bodies:

[quote name='The Catechism of the Council of Trent'] But the members especially, because they belong to the integrity of human nature, shall all be restored at once. The blind from nature or disease, the lame, the maimed and the paralyzed in any of [b]their [/b]members shall rise again with entire and perfect bodies. Otherwise the desires of the soul, which so strongly incline it to a union with the body, would be far from satisfied; but we are convinced that in the resurrection these desires will be fully realized. [/quote]

The use of the word "their" before the word "members" clearly shows that, even after death when your rational soul--that which makes you a man--is separated from your body, your body still belongs to you and shall be returned to you.

[quote] The Sacred Heart is part of the Living Christ, not dead matter. [/quote]

The Sacred Heart, as well as all Christ's other members (including the Skin Cells which He had on His Body when He was ressurected), ARE part of the Living Christ now and forever, but for three days, WERE part of Christ's dead, Divine Body.

[quote]What I am saying is based on Thomistic philosophy. If the "Church does not agree with me", please provide sources to back it up, rather than just claiming to speak for the Church.[/quote]

I've quoted Ott about how all of the Parts of Christ's Human Nature are to be adored with Latria. I've quoted the Catechism about How Christ's dead Body was never separated from His divinity. What more do you want?

[Paddington]

StThomasMore,

If your finger got chopped off, would it still be a part of you? I don't have a point of view here, I just wonder what you will say.

Peace,
Paddington

[Resurrexi]

[quote]StThomasMore,

If your finger got chopped off, would it still be a part of you? I don't have a point of view here, I just wonder what you will say.

Peace,
Paddington[/quote]

Why are you asking me this? The finger may not be connected to me any longer, but it would still belong to me.

Rome has said that ALL the Parts (i. e. body parts) of Christ's Human Nature are to be adored with Latria, and if you believe differently, you are a heretic.

Rome has also said that Christ's divinity remain united to His dead Body. If you believe differently, you are a heretic.

[phatcatholic]

moved this to the debate table.

now, before you take on the task of grand inquisitor, i would like to engage your response to me. i don't take the word "heretic" lightly.


[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1159320' date='Jan 8 2007, 08:42 PM']Thessalonian, you are incorrect, it has been defined that Christ's Divinity remained was not separated from His Body when He died (See the quote from the Roman Catechism in my previous post), therefore, It would not separate from His dead Skin Cells.[/quote]Let's look again at what the Roman Catechism says:[list]In the first part of this Article, then, we profess that immediately after the death of Christ His soul descended into hell, and dwelt there as long as His body remained in the tomb; and also that the one Person of Christ was at the same time in hell and in the sepulchre. Nor should this excite surprise; for, as we have already frequently said, although His soul was separated from His body, His Divinity was never parted from either His soul or His body.
[/list]While it is true that his divinity never parts from his body, it must be understood that the "body" in question is a body [b][i]whole and entire[/i][/b]. His divinity is hypostatically united to his whole body, and to each part only insofar as it is a member of this body. Once a part is removed from the body, or falls off the body, it does still belong to that person, [b][i]BUT[/i][/b] it is no longer a part of Jesus' body. Thus, it would not share in the divinity that the other parts share in as members of the body.

Once your proof is read in this light, it becomes evident that none of it proves what you think it proves. Whenever any of it refers to the parts of the body receiving latria, or the Sacred Heart receiving latria, it is referring to parts that are still members of His Body.


[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1160717' date='Jan 10 2007, 03:27 PM']Rome has said that ALL the Parts (i. e. body parts) of Christ's Human Nature are to be adored with Latria, and if you believe differently, you are a heretic.

Rome has also said that Christ's divinity remain united to His dead Body. If you believe differently, you are a heretic.[/quote]Yet, she never said anything about giving latria to parts that are separate from the body, and that's what skin cells would be.

Pax Christi,
phatcatholic