Clown Mass (yes, Its Real)

[cmotherofpirl]

They happen.
They need reported to a proper authority to be corrected.
The people need re-educated as to why they are wrong in a way that does not alienate them from the Church.

[Ora et Labora]

okay, i agree with cmom. let's just say that, and also that i didn't mean to ridicule anyone......

[LouisvilleFan]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1161496' date='Jan 11 2007, 02:11 PM']
I just finished reading Catholic Matters by Father Richard Neuhaus...I recommend it to everyone who is worried about the Church!
[/quote]

I have a friend who's very traditional and became Catholic about a year before I did. He's probably about as Trad as you can get without being a heretic or schismatic. Last time I talked to him, he was completely worried about liberals and all the damage their doing to the Church and society. And a lot of Trad types are like him... worried.

Now these other people at the Fr. Dizzy's Gospel procession and the Clown Mass look quite joyful.

If you were on the outside of the Catholic Church looking in, which camp would you rather be in?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='LouisvilleFan' post='1161548' date='Jan 11 2007, 02:57 PM']
I have a friend who's very traditional and became Catholic about a year before I did. He's probably about as Trad as you can get without being a heretic or schismatic. Last time I talked to him, he was completely worried about liberals and all the damage their doing to the Church and society. And a lot of Trad types are like him... worried.

Now these other people at the Fr. Dizzy's Gospel procession and the Clown Mass look quite joyful.

If you were on the outside of the Catholic Church looking in, which camp would you rather be in?
[/quote]
If I had to choose, I would take the other threads Mass.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1161533' date='Jan 11 2007, 12:47 PM']
WE usually have 50-100 guests on here at any one time, so while regulars recognize the abuse, many Catholics would not. You cannot deal with a problem if you don't know it exists. THese ARE misguided people, just like the people who put on Irish or Polka masses. WE both agree they need education [ and a note sent to the papal nuncio], not ridicule.
[/quote]
[quote name='Ora et Labora' post='1161534' date='Jan 11 2007, 12:48 PM']
alrighty. what ways exactly are we supposed to know about the abuses going on in the church?
[/quote]
[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1161538' date='Jan 11 2007, 12:51 PM']
They happen.
They need reported to a proper authority to be corrected.
The people need re-educated as to why they are wrong in a way that does not alienate them from the Church.
[/quote]
My personal view: The best way to know what is abuse is to know what the real thing looks like, inside and out, and on WHY the different parts of the Mass are done the way they are.

Then, because you know the real thing so welll, you can recognize when something is a deviation from the real thing. I'd much prefer to focus on people doing it right than on people doing it wrong.

An analogy I've heard along these lines is that Secret Service agents don't learn how to tell what's counterfeit by examining counterfeit bills ... they learn what's counterfeit by getting to know the real thing intimately. Then when they see a deviation, they know it's not the real thing.

If what we're trying to do is educate people about the Mass, then let's educate about the Mass. It doesn't help people unfamiliar with the faith or unsure of what's right to just see when it's being done wrong.

[cmotherofpirl]

So do you want to post all the relevant sections of the GRIM?

[Sojourner]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1161562' date='Jan 11 2007, 01:02 PM']
So do you want to post all the relevant sections of the GRIM?
[/quote]
I think I'll just take a video camera with me to Mass on Sunday and record it and post it.

[cmotherofpirl]

Excellent idea.!

[Ora et Labora]

I go to the Tridentine and know when things are abuses and when they aren't

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Ora et Labora' post='1161581' date='Jan 11 2007, 01:11 PM']
I go to the Tridentine and know when things are abuses and when they aren't
[/quote]
Good. Then you can help to educate others about what happens in Mass. Maybe you should take a video camera to YOUR parish on Sunday and record it and post it. Then we can all learn from seeing a Mass done right.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1161505' date='Jan 11 2007, 04:28 PM']
But ... this is not "the enemy" ... these are misguided brothers and sisters in the church. How does ridiculing them help to build up the church and make it stronger?
[/quote]
bah, you know me. I exaggerate.
But to be honest, I feel that some of these people don't need to be re-educated. They need to realize that they aren't Catholic and don't believe the things Catholics believe. It's a tough process, but it ends with them being gone. They want to change the Church instead of changing the world to be like the Church, and that's wrongheaded. So, I'm of the mind that they need to leave and quit their silliness. You know that barring a conversion of heart, a lot of these people will refuse to yield. And with spineless (yes, spineless) bishops, most folks ain't gonna hear what they need to hear to faciliate said conversion.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='toledo_jesus' post='1161597' date='Jan 11 2007, 03:23 PM']
bah, you know me. I exaggerate.
But to be honest, I feel that some of these people don't need to be re-educated. They need to realize that they aren't Catholic and don't believe the things Catholics believe. It's a tough process, but it ends with them being gone. They want to change the Church instead of changing the world to be like the Church, and that's wrongheaded. So, I'm of the mind that they need to leave and quit their silliness. You know that barring a conversion of heart, a lot of these people will refuse to yield. And with spineless (yes, spineless) bishops, most folks ain't gonna hear what they need to hear to faciliate said conversion.
[/quote]What? The clown priest isn't Catholic?

[Guest zealforChrist03]

Quick question... was this a Lifeteen Mass?


Also... how is this a sacrilege? Someone, please theologically clarify this (catechism, sacred scripture, etc.). Thanks. ciao!

Edited January 11, 2007 by zealforChrist03

[oraetlabora]

I have seen numerous videos like this, and could not sit idly by and listen to someone say that there is no good spreading the word about things like this, and that these are 'misguided brothers and sisters.'

As someone who has been in the trenches in a very liberal parish I can testify to the fact that these are not innocent souls who only wish the best for their people. Many of them are bitter and resentful at a 'church' who they perceive as telling them what to do, how to act, etc. Most of them are living in a serious state of sin (not judging, just making a qualified statement) and don't care about it, because they preach that there is no need for confession.

To say that we are not to watch things like this, only pray for those, is like saying it is good enough to just pray for an end to abortion, instead of getting out on the front lines, praying at the clinincs, and getting the word out and hoping that mothers will choose life, and governement will say it is wrong.

Moreover, I have signed petitions, written letters, etc. BECAUSE I saw a video similar to this about a year ago. I have contacted the questionable groups in charge who KNOWINGLY DISSENT from CHURCH DOCTRINE telling them of their inaccuracy, in all attempts of being charitable.

Someone commented that they are 'not the enemy,' I humbly beg to differ. When our lives become ingratiated in sin satan takes us over. he isn't going to ruin the church from the outside, he is going to attempt to ruin it from within, Pope Leo XIII had a vision that the church would be bleeding from many wounds, caused by those who are to love Christ the most! As I learned when I was a little kid, the best way to blow up an ant pile with an M-60 is to jam it as far into the ant pile as possible and lite it, not stick it on the top and hope it does damage.

Just a few thoughts from someone in the fight as we speak...

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1161621' date='Jan 11 2007, 05:40 PM']
What? The clown priest isn't Catholic?
[/quote]
he may well not be.

If the belief isn't there, then we can safely say that one isn't Catholic.

The problem is getting them to realize they aren't Catholic. Difficult when it's a priest.

And I don't mean to sound arrogant or anything, but I think it's realistic to say what I've said. Some people aren't Catholic, by virtue of what they do or do not believe. And for some of those, there will not be a conversion of heart for reasons of pride or false teaching or whatever. Some people just ain't in the shape to combat the misinformation. So...far better for them to leave the Church rather than try to 'change' it with whatever morality is fashionable at the moment.

'Twon't happen, though. Not til our bishops and cardinals get their act together. Only One as I reckon can make that happen.

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='Ora_et_Labora' post='1161633' date='Jan 11 2007, 03:02 PM']
I have seen numerous videos like this, and could not sit idly by and listen to someone say that there is no good spreading the word about things like this, and that these are 'misguided brothers and sisters.'

As someone who has been in the trenches in a very liberal parish I can testify to the fact that these are not innocent souls who only wish the best for their people. Many of them are bitter and resentful at a 'church' who they perceive as telling them what to do, how to act, etc. Most of them are living in a serious state of sin (not judging, just making a qualified statement) and don't care about it, because they preach that there is no need for confession.

To say that we are not to watch things like this, only pray for those, is like saying it is good enough to just pray for an end to abortion, instead of getting out on the front lines, praying at the clinincs, and getting the word out and hoping that mothers will choose life, and governement will say it is wrong.

Moreover, I have signed petitions, written letters, etc. BECAUSE I saw a video similar to this about a year ago. I have contacted the questionable groups in charge who KNOWINGLY DISSENT from CHURCH DOCTRINE telling them of their inaccuracy, in all attempts of being charitable.

Someone commented that they are 'not the enemy,' I humbly beg to differ. When our lives become ingratiated in sin satan takes us over. he isn't going to ruin the church from the outside, he is going to attempt to ruin it from within, Pope Leo XIII had a vision that the church would be bleeding from many wounds, caused by those who are to love Christ the most! As I learned when I was a little kid, the best way to blow up an ant pile with an M-60 is to jam it as far into the ant pile as possible and lite it, not stick it on the top and hope it does damage.

Just a few thoughts from someone in the fight as we speak...
[/quote]

thanks for your thoughts!

oh! and i love the screen name!


[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1161585' date='Jan 11 2007, 02:15 PM']
Good. Then you can help to educate others about what happens in Mass. Maybe you should take a video camera to YOUR parish on Sunday and record it and post it. Then we can all learn from seeing a Mass done right.
[/quote]

i could! but that wouldn't teach people of the abuses as well.

[Akalyte]

did yall happen to see the"halloween" mass? my God. this is scary stuff.

[mortify]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1161311' date='Jan 11 2007, 09:38 AM']
Hey, does that make you all Protestants?
[/quote]

Protestants broke away from the Apostolic faith, so no, we're not like them.

In St Athanasius's time the hierarchy and majority of the bishops accepted the arian heresy. As frustrating as it is, the most a lay person like myself can do is pray that Jesus sends us another St Athanasius contra mundum.

[mortify]

The most frustrating thing is seeing the opposition to re introducing some Catholic practices that were done away with. Yet these and lesser forms of liturgical abuses seem to go on unceasingly.

That video was made in 2002, do you think that priest still serves that parish?

Edited January 11, 2007 by mortify

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='Akalyte' post='1161792' date='Jan 11 2007, 04:45 PM']
did yall happen to see the"halloween" mass? my God. this is scary stuff.
[/quote]

there were a few halloween masses...i saw the one with barney.



i was scared, actually.

[quote name='mortify' post='1161841' date='Jan 11 2007, 05:45 PM']
The most frustrating thing is seeing the opposition to re introducing some Catholic practices that were done away with. Yet these and lesser forms of liturgical abuses seem to go on unceasingly.

That video was made in 2002, do you think that priest still serves that parish?
[/quote]

i was wondering the same thing.