Crusades

[Winchester]

ahem.

[KizlarAgha]

I said yes. Can we go again? I missed the last one by about 700 years

[Qoheleth]

[quote name='KizlarAgha' date='May 17 2005, 03:37 AM'] I said yes. Can we go again? I missed the last one by about 700 years [/quote]
Amen.

[Winchester]

Our current military theories would certainly allow for more surgical operations, to a point.

But remember, the Crusades weren't inspired until Christendom came under repeated attack. The impetus was never a desire to stamp out by violence another religion, but to preserve ours.

Let no one come out and start quoting individual crusaders or their actions. Certainly, each person had motivation for entering the wars, but the Church did not begin waging war until Catholics were under attack for a long period of time.

[KizlarAgha]

[quote name='Winchester' date='May 31 2005, 12:10 AM'] Our current military theories would certainly allow for more surgical operations, to a point.

But remember, the Crusades weren't inspired until Christendom came under repeated attack. The impetus was never a desire to stamp out by violence another religion, but to preserve ours.

Let no one come out and start quoting individual crusaders or their actions. Certainly, each person had motivation for entering the wars, but the Church did not begin waging war until Catholics were under attack for a long period of time. [/quote]
I think we should quote individual crusaders. By and large, they're very noble in their intents and actions.

[God Conquers]

Please do!

[popestpiusx]

For anything to qualify as a Crusade (with the indulgence attached) it would have to be called by the Holy Father. It can't be done on one's own initiative.

[Aloysius]

and the current atmosphere of the hierarchy makes it seem as if this would be very unlikely...

unless the ICO were to try to charge/imprison the Holy Father (it's been talked about before, somethin stupid about human rights and homosexuals)... well the Swiss Guard would stop em but if the ICO were backed enough with a real military... it's possible the Holy Father would call a crusade to defend Rome

or perhaps it's only in my dreams and there will be no crusades, even if it became really necessary, for quite some time.

[Cam42]

There is a reason that the Templars were suppressed. Some valid and some invalid. I have been doing a ton of reading on this.....very interesting.....I will post some books of interest.....

[KizlarAgha]

[quote name='Cam42' date='Jun 1 2005, 11:28 AM'] There is a reason that the Templars were suppressed. Some valid and some invalid. I have been doing a ton of reading on this.....very interesting.....I will post some books of interest..... [/quote]
I my mind, Cam, there are reasons for supressing the Templars, but NONE of them involve actual heretical practices or witchcraft.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='KizlarAgha' date='Jun 1 2005, 12:29 PM'] I my mind, Cam, there are reasons for supressing the Templars, but NONE of them involve actual heretical practices or witchcraft. [/quote]
Oh I don't know I think there was probably some witchcraft going on there but I doubt those in charge had any knowledge of it, further sodomy may have been going on on some level.

[KizlarAgha]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jun 1 2005, 01:16 PM'] Oh I don't know I think there was probably some witchcraft going on there but I doubt those in charge had any knowledge of it, further sodomy may have been going on on some level. [/quote]
Sodomy goes on in the Catholic Church on a lot of levels. That's an abuse, not a reason to burn and destroy an entire order.

[Don John of Austria]

[quote name='KizlarAgha' date='Jun 1 2005, 01:57 PM'] Sodomy goes on in the Catholic Church on a lot of levels. That's an abuse, not a reason to burn and destroy an entire order. [/quote]
Well it would depend how much of it was going on, and besides the whole order wasn't burned and destroyed, except for France all of the knights where found innocent of Wrong doing and where allowed to join the other Orders.

[KizlarAgha]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jun 1 2005, 02:06 PM'] Well it would depend how much of it was going on, and besides the whole order wasn't burned and destroyed, except for France all of the knights where found innocent of Wrong doing and where allowed to join the other Orders. [/quote]
That's true. And the records from the other countries found no sign of wrong doing. I've read some of those transcripts myself.

[Don John of Austria]

I have always figured that some group of Templars in France was up to something and that Philip used that as a pretext to destroy them.

[KizlarAgha]

[quote name='Don John of Austria' date='Jun 1 2005, 02:24 PM'] I have always figured that some group of Templars in France was up to something and that Philip used that as a pretext to destroy them. [/quote]
I always figured that something was making money and becoming immensely powerful.

[Don John of Austria]

No Philip was Bold but probably not that Bold, there was probably some group of heretics that had infiltrated perhaps Cathari who were ( which wold also fit with the sodomy) there in France and it Gave Philip the excuse he needed.

[Aloysius]

either way, it made everyone afraid of the number 13 forever.