Women And Christianity In History

[God Conquers]

Has anyone on Phatmass ever come across anything about the history, or view of women in the Church?

I'm in a class that is pretty negative about Christianity in some aspects and I want to come against some of the stuff.

For example, it can't really be disputed that women through the early church and middle ages were seen as temptresses, after the archetypical image of Eve.

Is there any possible positive spin on this?

I'd love to get some feedback.

[God Conquers]

nope? Nothing?

[SRMiller]

[quote name='God Conquers' post='1169363' date='Jan 18 2007, 11:42 PM']
nope? Nothing?
[/quote]
I'll see what I can find later, though it might end up being tomorrow, as it's getting pretty late here. Anyway, I'll definitely look.

[goldenchild17]

Let them know about the true devotion the Church has for Mary. If that doesn't make the Church pretty durn feminist (in a good way ), then I don't know what would.

[Socrates]

While I don't have any links off the top of my head, I can tell you straight out that the p.c. feminist line about Christianity or the Catholic Church bringing about the alleged oppression of women in the Middle Ages is absolute rot.

Women generally enjoyed more rights and higher esteem in medieval Christendom than they had in the pagan world.

In the pagan Roman empire, for example, a man could legally sell his wife and daughters into slavery or prostitution, or have them put to death.

And things were and no better in most of the non-Western world. In many pagan tribes, women were treated as little more than slaves, and were frequently regarded with contempt. The often degrading treatment of women in Muslim law is well documented, with "honor-killing" of women were raped, and a number of male witnesses being required to support a woman's accusation of rape, as well as polygamy, taking of child-brides, etc. In Hindu cultures, the practice of wife-burning continues to this day (though it is now officially outlawed). Not to mention such brutal non-Christian practices as "female circumcism" and foot-binding in ancient China.

Modern feminist liberals hate Christian Western civilization, and wish to blame it for the alleged persecution of women, yet they are basically "biting the hand that feeds them" - as it was Western Civilization rooted in Christianity that gave us the whole concpet of women's rights to begin with.

[SRMiller]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1169370' date='Jan 18 2007, 11:51 PM']
Let them know about the true devotion the Church has for Mary. If that doesn't make the Church pretty durn feminist (in a good way ), then I don't know what would.
[/quote]

Along those lines, the women had the right to choose to be nuns. Sometimes their families chose for them, but a lot of times they chose it for themselves, if I'm not mistaken. They had power to petition for their choice of abbesses, and could even receive an education there. These are women who gave themselves to the Church, and I don't see how it's keeping them down, as it were.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

Yes. In fact, some women chose to become nuns because they knew that becoming a Bride of Christ was the only way they could get any sort of education at all.

[cathqat]

[quote name='God Conquers' post='1168765' date='Jan 17 2007, 11:48 PM']Has anyone on Phatmass ever come across anything about the history, or view of women in the Church?[/quote]
Books I heartily recommend:

[url="http://www.amazon.com/Concept-Woman-Aristotelian-Revolution-Bc-Ad/dp/0802842704"][i]The Concept of Woman: The Aristotelian Revolution 750 Bc-Ad 1250[/i][/url] by Prudence Allen
[url="http://www.amazon.com/Concept-Woman-Humanist-Reformation-1250-1500/dp/0802833462"][i]The Concept of Woman: The Early Humanist Reformation, 1250-1500[/i][/url] by Prudence Allen

Sr. Prudence has also written many excellent articles.

I would also recommend reading things the Church Fathers wrote about their female friends and relatives, e.g. what Jerome wrote about Paula or to Eustochium, what Gregory of Nyssa wrote about his sister Macrina, what John Chrysostom wrote to and about Olympia, what Gregory Nazianzen wrote about his mother Nonna, what Augustine wrote about his mother Monica. There are elements that we will naturally find offensive--e.g. the fact that Jerome can only accept Paula as a friend to the extent that he understands her to be sexless or manly. But we will also find that Christianity actually fostered real friendships between men and women despite these attitudes, and that actual, concrete women were often much more highly respected than the abstract writings about women let on.

You might also consider reading other ancient and early writings about female saints, like the apocryphal [i]Acts of Paul & Thecla[/i], which won St. Thecla widespread reverence; the [i]Acts of Perpetua & Felicity[/i]; or Egeria's [i]Diary of a Pilgrimage[/i].

Later, it becomes easier to find books and other writings by women, especially saints like Hildegard of Bingen.

[shortnun]

[quote name='God Conquers' post='1168765' date='Jan 17 2007, 10:48 PM']
Has anyone on Phatmass ever come across anything about the history, or view of women in the Church?

I'm in a class that is pretty negative about Christianity in some aspects and I want to come against some of the stuff.

For example, it can't really be disputed that women through the early church and middle ages were seen as temptresses, after the archetypical image of Eve.

Is there any possible positive spin on this?

I'd love to get some feedback.
[/quote]
May I ask what sort of class this is? Were other negative comments about Christianity made, and not just those regarding oppression of women?

[quote name='SRMiller' post='1169988' date='Jan 19 2007, 06:27 AM']
Along those lines, the women had the right to choose to be nuns. Sometimes their families chose for them, but a lot of times they chose it for themselves, if I'm not mistaken. They had power to petition for their choice of abbesses, and could even receive an education there. These are women who gave themselves to the Church, and I don't see how it's keeping them down, as it were.
[/quote]
I hesitate to make broad generalities like this. Sometimes, women had the right to chose to become cloistered women or consecrated virgins. Other times throughout history (notably in light of the Council of Trent), women were not permitted to do apostolic works of charity and mercy. They were forbidden to leave the cloister. And yes, many men and women had monastic life chosen for them by their families.

"Keeping them down" deserves a much deeper exploration of history and specific cultural developments and norms.

[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1170549' date='Jan 19 2007, 04:18 PM']
Yes. In fact, some women chose to become nuns because they knew that becoming a Bride of Christ was the only way they could get any sort of education at all.
[/quote]
This is particularly true of women entering religious life over the past few hundred years. And in some cases, the intention was not a genuine desire to live religious life, but a desire for an escape from one's current surroundings and a possibility for an education.