jasJis Posted January 21, 2004 Posted January 21, 2004 The following is from the Tampa Tribune and it's about a real church that is by my house. Does this sound like a clever way to get people to hear the message, or is it a stunt that will absolutely miss the message? Be specific with your opinion and give a WHY. Tampa Tribune 1/21/2004: VALRICO - On Friday night, one person will go to church - and walk away with $2,004. ``Churches are always asking for money. But we're going to turn it around for this one night and return that blessing,'' says the Rev. Timothy Dyson of the nondenominational Church Alive in Valrico. Dyson acknowledges the giveaway promotion, which also includes four $24 checks and $2,996 in gift certificates to local businesses, may seem wacky. But these days, he says, it takes creativity to reach out to new members. This from the minister who roars to services on a Harley- Davidson motorcycle. He's been known to deliver sermons from a boat hauled into the sanctuary, and he set up a boxing ring to fight the demons of drugs and divorce. He's a believer in the ``illustrated sermon,'' using live pigs and smoke machines to tell biblical parables. ``It's the same old-time religion with new technology,'' Dyson, 45, says. ``If you want to appeal to this generation, you've got to appeal to the sight and sound.'' The third-generation preacher with Pentecostal roots and his wife, Sherri, have led the 500-member SunCoast Harvest Center in Bradenton for seven years. Last year, they spotted an empty church complex (the former Crosswalk Church) across from Bloomingdale High School and felt compelled to launch a second congregation. With a $700,000 investment and support from Faith World, a nondenominational megachurch in Orlando led by gospel musician Clint Brown, they opened Church Alive three months ago. The Dysons juggle duties between the two congregations. Friday's event begins at 7 p.m. and will include clowns for the kids, a light show and music by Brown. Every visitor gets a ticket; five names will be drawn for the cash giveaway. The top winner gets $2,004, which was donated by an anonymous businessman who shared Dyson's vision. Virginia Saunders, 33, her husband and their five children are among the 50 or so families attending Church Alive. She likes the idea of the money promotion. But for her, the church's diversity and Dyson himself are draw enough. ``He's very upbeat and interesting. You never know what to expect,'' she says. ``He has a heart for people, and it shows.'' Trish Brackin, 39, a nurse at Memorial Hospital in Tampa, has attended the church with her husband and three children since it opened. She likes the giveaway idea, though she thinks it's a shame it's necessary. ``In this world, so many people aren't saved, and money is their god,'' she says. ``It's a neat way to reach people who are focused on something maybe they shouldn't be focused on.'' Dyson hopes newcomers leave with more than money Friday night. He knows some will come only for the chance to win, but he's optimistic plenty will be inspired to join. ``We're not changing the message,'' he says. ``We're just delivering it in a way to get people's attention.'' --- Reporter Michelle Bearden can be reached at (813) 259-7613. [Please do not call this poor woman. She's just the reporter and it's the policy of the Paper to provide this information.
Carrie Posted January 21, 2004 Posted January 21, 2004 I don't like it. It makes me wonder if the people who are there because they heard about the money will really get the message that is trying to be given. Also, going to Mass and receiveing the Eucharist is more than what we sinners deserve. But we are allowed to receive the Eucharist and experience Christ. Is that not gift enough? Is that not reason enough to go to Mass? I think if people are going for money, they aren't being sincere and may even distract those that are there for the right reasons.
ironmonk Posted January 21, 2004 Posted January 21, 2004 (edited) Den of thieves.... pretty sad. Doing the right thing (getting people to go to Church) for the wrong reason (for money) is just as bad as doing the wrong thing. That's what raffels are for... but don't do it in the church... but then again, it is a non-denom... less than 30 yrs. old. Your Servant in Christ, ironmonk Edited January 21, 2004 by ironmonk
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 21, 2004 Posted January 21, 2004 They probably have some good intentions. Maybe they think they will get uninspired people back into their faith. First they have to pay them but eventually they will come on their own kind of thing. I don't think the end justifies the means because it sends a really bad message out. Ack! Actually it's a dreadful thing to do.
M.SIGGA Posted January 21, 2004 Posted January 21, 2004 the intention is good, but overall it's a pretty lame idea. only a bad pastor would have to buy people to sit in the pews. the parishoners should have paid for their pastor to take some effective preaching classes with all that money.
Richard Posted January 21, 2004 Posted January 21, 2004 Didn't Jesus say something about men not being able to serve God and money at the same time? Surely just going to church to receive money goes directly against this teaching.
socalscout Posted January 21, 2004 Posted January 21, 2004 Its just another material "hook". I'd like to know the retention % after the money is gone. Its as hollow as anything that is based on materialism.
Sojourner Posted January 21, 2004 Posted January 21, 2004 I hate this, and it actually made me almost physically ill to read it. It cheapens the Gospel and weakens the message. If money is a stronger draw for people than whatever this guy is preaching, he's obviously not preaching the Truth.
PatrickRitaMichael Posted January 21, 2004 Posted January 21, 2004 Sojourner, I agree. The Truth is stronger and more powerful than anything man can come up with (even money!) as long as someone's heart is prepared for it. Just present the Truth and God will draw people to Himself. To think that you have to bribe people to approach God is insulting to Him, imo.
Confessionator741 Posted January 22, 2004 Posted January 22, 2004 Blah.... I would like them to do something usefull with the money....like charity, dont give it to somebody just for showing up, thats carp
Confessionator741 Posted January 22, 2004 Posted January 22, 2004 HAHA, o man D, guess we could all use some cash, but.....i dunno, i think i would sell the clothes on my back than to go there..... on the other hand, its not like im getting payed to recieve the Eucharist, id be getting payed to listen to some self proclaimed minister talk about the gospel. As long as he say against the Chruch, i guess i could be cool with that.... the concept of it is still wrong....
littleflower+JMJ Posted January 22, 2004 Posted January 22, 2004 over here theres a BIG billboard poster saying if you join their church or go to a service you get this like "national best-seller" novel...... now one question...... does it have color pictures? :ph34r:
jasJis Posted January 22, 2004 Author Posted January 22, 2004 Lot's of knee jerking, but little head bobbing. Isn't God all about Loving and Blessing us? Isn't one reason (besides giving Glory to God) we accept and hear the Word of God is the Blessings it brings us? Isn't this pastor's message about recieving blessings from God, who gives us EVERYTHING anyways. Doesn't it seem like he's trying to overcome the message that Church is just a way we give money to God? I think it's a little harsh to claim he's a bad pastor and having to 'buy' people to come. From what I read, he's a dynamic speaker and respected enough to get financed. Socal has a good point about the retention %. What if 40 extra people showed up and 10% are still attending 3 months later. What bearing would that have? Soj. Does it cheapen the Gospel? Isn't there Scripture that says that God will more than repay 100% what we give? Isn't the message also that God gives us Gifts of Grace that are undeserved? PMR, Jesus preached in the Temple, on the beach, and in fields. He went to were people are, like a shepherd searching for the lost sheep. He doesn't just stand and shout. Confessionator. That's enlightening to me, I hadn't thought of it that way. Catholics shudder initially because our services (Mass) are so much more. When viewed as preaching without the Eucharist, it does seem more palatable.
dUSt Posted January 22, 2004 Posted January 22, 2004 We should appeal to people's souls with holiness, not their senses with an exciting show. There will always be places where you can find a better show, but you will never be able to find a place with more holiness, than in the Church.
PatrickRitaMichael Posted January 22, 2004 Posted January 22, 2004 PMR, Jesus preached in the Temple, on the beach, and in fields. He went to were people are, like a shepherd searching for the lost sheep. He doesn't just stand and shout. I'm not saying that you shouldn't go where the people are. BUT, you don't have to feel as if you need to make God look better. He's great just the way He is, right? Then why do you have to say, 'Hi, meet God, I'll give you $100?' I think 'Hi, meet God' is enough. You do have a good point, though, jas :)
Sojourner Posted January 23, 2004 Posted January 23, 2004 jasJis, Dynamic preacher though this man may be, this particular stunt still sends up all sorts of warning signs to me. My earlier post WAS actually the thought-through reaction; my knee-jerk reaction was, “This guy has come up with a creative way of scamming people.” I’ve been to plenty of fundraisers where door prizes were given away as a means of getting people through the door. Any good fundraiser knows you have to give money to get money. What is this guy really after? This pastor says, “We’re not changing the message. We’re just delivering it in a way to get people’s attention.” The thing is, this guy IS changing the message. Instead of the draw being CHRIST, it’s money. The Truth of Christ alone should be enough of a draw. I maintain that if this man requires money in order to draw people, he is not preaching Christ. By presenting the Gospel in this way, he implicitly says the message alone isn’t enough to get people’s attention – he has to give people a chance to win money in order to get people through the door. God DOES of course love and bless us, but he never says that by following the Gospel we will have material wealth, and I hate that so much of the message prevalent in the United States today equates the Truth of the Gospel with material possessions and blessings. I’m NOT SAYING that God doesn’t sometimes choose to bless us materially, but I am saying that equating the two is dangerous. What’s the flip side, then, if God doesn’t give me money, am I somehow on his bad side? Sojourner
jasJis Posted January 23, 2004 Author Posted January 23, 2004 What if, when the money is handed out, the point is made that it didn't come from the Preacher, or from the Church, or even from the generosity of others, it really came from God, who everything belongs to any way? (By the way, I am being a little obtuse because I want good arguments. Note in the article, the Church is accross the street from a High School. My neighborhood kids, and kids I know at Catholic Church, go there. I want to be well prepared when I talk with them. Teens aren't dummies, and they'll have friends arguing against them with good reasons why it's a good idea.)
Sojourner Posted January 23, 2004 Posted January 23, 2004 What honest-to-goodness church lures people through the wares of the world? Christians who truly know God know something much better, more lasting, than anything the world can give, even money. I am reminded of Jesus' conversation with the woman at the well recorded in the Gospel of John. She asks for water, and he tells her he can give her living water so she will never thirst again. God doesn’t entice us with things that will pass away, but with the lasting Truth of the Gospel. This man is a charlatan.
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