What Should A Christian Do If Someone Tells Them There Is A Trinity

January 24, 2007

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1174691' date='Jan 24 2007, 10:12 AM']
Someone who follows the Christ in spirit and in truth to the glory of YHWH, who is a spirit.
[/quote]

It doesn't matter if you are Jewish or Jehovah's Witness or whatever, you need to learn real quick that Yahweh is not a spirit. And about the Trinity, check your scripture, bud...when Moses and the Israelites "tapped" the rock for water, the Rock, then, was Jesus Christ too!

[quote]The divisions go on and on because there are a group of very powerful men who want to see humanity divided so they can go unhindered creating the Kingdom of the Anti-Christ, their master.[/quote]

Just what are you talking about dude? It sounds like you think you have some master faith and that Christianity for the last 2,000 was wrong and that it was all built up to take out Christ. Man, is that twisted.

Not only that, but have brought forth some pretty obscure and not so reliable testimony as well as sources - all to your own discredit, which undermines your self-righteous idea of truth. Clearly, you are lacking in the area of truth. Clearly, the content of your mind has been deluded by whatever cult you are a part of.

You said one thing, though, you mentioned "idle talk", it seems you have been taking some cues from Heidegger. Or maybe your "leader guy" is taking cues, I dunno. But if you did read [i]Being and Time[/i], you must recognize that Martin was clearly into his faith, nevermind his disclaimer at the beginning of what he wrote about not trying to "prove the existence of God". He was a man of great faith. Also, he was at disagreement with the Catholic faith, but to the extent that the two departed on the theory of historidcal knowledge.

i'm going off track, here. The point is that for you to make any comment about "idle talk", you must have had some kind of contact with Heidegger, whether direct or in-direct. He is very difficult to understand and his ideas about Dasein, when misunderstood can create havoc. I hope that hasn't happened to you.

After reading most of what you've written, I am sure that wherever you are studying (where is that by the way?) is a mis-interpretation of a mis-interpretation. I'll pray for ya.

Edited January 24, 2007 by geistesswiesenschaften

January 24, 2007

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1174701' date='Jan 24 2007, 10:37 AM']
YHWH created us as the Father. YHWH redeems us as the Son. YHWH renews us as the Holy Ghost. YHWH is not three persons, but one spirit who does three things. That is the truth of the Apostles, and if that is the truth of the Apostles, than that is good enough for me.
[/quote]

I don't think you have a clear definition of what Trinity means. One in three. There is only one being. God exists in three persons, but there is only one being, one God. When you see the Holy Spirit, you see God, when you see Jesus, you see God. Don't worry about seeing the face of God without either of the aformentioned because you will not live (that's biblical). Start at the beginning, go back to Genesis: God refers to Godself in the Third Person Plural, "We" and "Us".

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1174758' date='Jan 24 2007, 12:27 PM']
No, he said to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and that name is Yeshua, YHWH our righteousness, because YHWH the one undivided spirit is the Father through creation, the Son through redemption, and the Holy Ghost through renewal.
[/quote]

maybe you think you have something to do with that "renewal"?

it's not likely. from what you've written, it appears that you deny Jesus Christ. Who do you say that Jesus is?

January 24, 2007

[quote name='geistesswiesenschaften' post='1174920' date='Jan 24 2007, 04:04 PM']
It doesn't matter if you are Jewish or Jehovah's Witness or whatever, you need to learn real quick that Yahweh is not a spirit. And about the Trinity, check your scripture, bud...when Moses and the Israelites "tapped" the rock for water, the Rock, then, was Jesus Christ too!
Just what are you talking about dude? It sounds like you think you have some master faith and that Christianity for the last 2,000 was wrong and that it was all built up to take out Christ. Man, is that twisted.

Not only that, but have brought forth some pretty obscure and not so reliable testimony as well as sources - all to your own discredit, which undermines your self-righteous idea of truth. Clearly, you are lacking in the area of truth. Clearly, the content of your mind has been deluded by whatever cult you are a part of.

You said one thing, though, you mentioned "idle talk", it seems you have been taking some cues from Heidegger. Or maybe your "leader guy" is taking cues, I dunno. But if you did read [i]Being and Time[/i], you must recognize that Martin was clearly into his faith, nevermind his disclaimer at the beginning of what he wrote about not trying to "prove the existence of God". He was a man of great faith. Also, he was at disagreement with the Catholic faith, but to the extent that the two departed on the theory of historidcal knowledge.

i'm going off track, here. The point is that for you to make any comment about "idle talk", you must have had some kind of contact with Heidegger, whether direct or in-direct. He is very difficult to understand and his ideas about Dasein, when misunderstood can create havoc. I hope that hasn't happened to you.

After reading most of what you've written, I am sure that wherever you are studying (where is that by the way?) is a mis-interpretation of a mis-interpretation. I'll pray for ya.
[/quote]
Who are you talking about?

Cults need more than one person involved in them.

I'm just a lone warrior of Christ.

There is enough evidence out there if you research the Babylonian mystery religions and their corruption of the Jewish Faith. Most of them are in the Bible. Or did YHWH send army after army into the promised lands for fun during the times of the book of Judges?

Or is it a misinterpretation when YHWH said that reason the nation of Israel wanted to be ruled by a King was they didn't wouldn't put the ways and gods of the Egyptians away, and that the desire for a King was a rejection of him and his reign in the lives of the nation of Israel.

These are historical facts, unless the Bible is false.

So we have many pagan influences in many Jews at the time of the Christ, and that, unfortunately resulted in a corruption of Christanity, as Jews who were not Jews - i.e. the Synogogue of Satan - infiltrated the church and corrupted it.

Unfortunately, Satan doesn't play fair. . .

I want everybody to realize we are being brain washed by elites to believe we need Religion and Government and only our religion is the right one. I say dissolve them all and get rid of them, and let Yeshua take the government. Unfortunately, that day hasn't come to us yet. When it does, then Yeshua will teach all of us the right and true doctrine, tesifying what is of him and what is not of him..

The only thing that matters is you declare him lord and bow yourself to him alone. Don't trust anybody, because we are all liars.

And before you say YHWH is not a spirit, need I remind you of Scripture -

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

How then is YHWH not a spirit. You need to check your scripture, and traditions. I have never meet anybody who said that YHWH is not a spirit until you.

[quote name='geistesswiesenschaften' post='1174932' date='Jan 24 2007, 04:19 PM']
I don't think you have a clear definition of what Trinity means. One in three. There is only one being. God exists in three persons, but there is only one being, one God. When you see the Holy Spirit, you see God, when you see Jesus, you see God. Don't worry about seeing the face of God without either of the aformentioned because you will not live (that's biblical). Start at the beginning, go back to Genesis: God refers to Godself in the Third Person Plural, "We" and "Us".
maybe you think you have something to do with that "renewal"?

it's not likely. from what you've written, it appears that you deny Jesus Christ. Who do you say that Jesus is?
[/quote]

Yeshua is Jesus Christ, who is the Christ, the son of the living God.

The Son, after all is YHWH our righteousness.

January 24, 2007

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1174942' date='Jan 24 2007, 04:29 PM']
Who are you talking about?

Cults need more than one person involved in them.

I'm just a lone warrior of Christ.

There is enough evidence out there if you research the Babylonian mystery religions and their corruption of the Jewish Faith. Most of them are in the Bible. Or did YHWH send army after army into the promised lands for fun during the times of the book of Judges?

Or is it a misinterpretation when YHWH said that reason the nation of Israel wanted to be ruled by a King was they didn't wouldn't put the ways and gods of the Egyptians away, and that the desire for a King was a rejection of him and his reign in the lives of the nation of Israel.

These are historical facts, unless the Bible is false.

So we have many pagan influences in many Jews at the time of the Christ, and that, unfortunately resulted in a corruption of Christanity, as Jews who were not Jews - i.e. the Synogogue of Satan - infiltrated the church and corrupted it.

Unfortunately, Satan doesn't play fair. . .

I want everybody to realize we are being brain washed by elites to believe we need Religion and Government and only our religion is the right one. I say dissolve them all and get rid of them, and let Yeshua take the government. Unfortunately, that day hasn't come to us yet. When it does, then Yeshua will teach all of us the right and true doctrine, tesifying what is of him and what is not of him..

The only thing that matters is you declare him lord and bow yourself to him alone. Don't trust anybody, because we are all liars.

And before you say YHWH is not a spirit, need I remind you of Scripture -

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

How then is YHWH not a spirit. You need to check your scripture, and traditions. I have never meet anybody who said that YHWH is not a spirit until you.
Yeshua is Jesus Christ, who is the Christ, the son of the living God.

The Son, after all is YHWH our righteousness.
[/quote]
Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God. A Son is a PERSON, Just as God the Father is a PERSON. It says so right in the Bible.!

January 24, 2007

What should a Christian do? A Christian should acknowledge it as full truth that there is a Trinity.

January 24, 2007

[quote name='Raphael' post='1174955' date='Jan 24 2007, 04:49 PM']
What should a Christian do? A Christian should acknowledge it as full truth that there is a Trinity.
[/quote]

Well duh :lol: .

We can believe, but never fully understand.

January 24, 2007

First, fulltruth, you are mistaken that simply because two beliefs are similar that one comes from another. Your premise and reasoning are both erroneous. Simply because the Trinity is difficult to understand does not make it erroneous. In your attempt to completely figure God out, you've lead yourself on a path of destruction. You believe that the Trinity denies reason because you believe that Trinitarian theology gives God multiple personalities. Quite the opposite, modalism states there is one God with multiple personalities. Jesus unequivocally stated that He is "I AM". There is no doubt that Jesus is God, yet there is also no doubt scripturally that Jesus is not the Father. If Jesus is the person of the Father as you would assert than Jesus has lost his mind stating that He is not the Father. Rather, the doctrine of the Trinity. It rather makes much more sense to understand God as the God knows himself, and as every Christian, even those in Protestant communities have understood his self-revelation. God is truly three persons in one divine nature. There are not three gods. There is not one god who has three split personalities. There is one God and only one God who exists in three divine persons.

January 24, 2007

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1174847' date='Jan 24 2007, 02:44 PM']I believe the Oneness is truth, but I also believe, and I hope you all believe this as well, When Yeshua comes back he will resolve all doctrine differences in the churches of the Abramhamic religions.
[/quote]In the meantime, Yeshua leaves us to guess what's true? Or to believe anything our interpretation of the Scriptures leads us to? Is He the Truth, the Way, and the Life as He claimed to be, or isn't He?

Yeshua (Joshua, Jesus) didn't leave us orphans. He preserved His Church -- the Church He founded for the salvation of the world, the Church who is His spotless Bride, His very Body, the Church that wrote the New Testament -- from teaching error.

The Church (not the Bible) is "the household of God, the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth" 1 Timothy 3:15.

Jay

-----------------------------
Blessed Father Damien, pray for us!

January 24, 2007

God is One and God is Three.

God is one because there can be no division in God. Naturally, if there was division in God, there would be three supreme beings. There can only be one supreme Being.

God is three because God is love. Love requires a lover and a lovee. Creation is not a sufficient recipient of God's love because creation can never receive God entirely. Therefore, the lovee must be eternal, like the Father. This means that there are at least two Persons in one Godhead. The love itself, that self-gift from God, is also a Person, because if the Father gives His whole self, then the flow of being from Father to Son must have the whole nature of the Father (this is why the Holy Spirit is always seen in Scripture as wind; He flows and moves in love; He is animate; He is the Lord, the Giver of Life).

Furthermore, we know that "Father" and "Son" are relational terms. One person cannot be in relation with himself. Two persons can have a relationship.

Further, the Son is the Word of the Father. He is the one eternal utterance of God. Just as any speech comes from what is inside the speaker, so the Son comes from inside His Father. Just as words express the person who speaks, so the Son expresses the Father, but where human nature fails, divine nature succeeds. The Son perfectly expresses His Father and thus has all that His Father has.

Now, this seems that we are saying that there are three separate beings, but this is not true. There is one being. The being, the essence, the nature of the Father is what the Father gives the Son. Therefore, there is one nature, one divinity which both Father and Son have at once. Note that this can only happen if the two dwell within one another, as Christ said, "that I am in you and you are in me, Father...that we are one." Jesus was not praying to Himself.

This is why we say: the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, yet the Father is not the Son, nor the Son the Holy Spirit, nor the Holy Spirit the Father, yet they are all of the same essence and nature, but distinct because of their relationships. A human father has children with a human mother, but God needs no human mother to have a Son. Therefore, while a human child only has half of his father's genes, because he also has his mother's, the Son of God has all of His Father's Nature, the divine Nature, and is all that His Father is, yet He is not His Father.

Thus God spoke in the beginning, saying, "we shall make man in our image," using the plural. Thus also, as part of man's nature, in order to image God all the more, God made man a social creature and gave Adam a wife, Eve. God wished to have a relationship also with creation and, in the fulness of time, sent His Son to be born of a woman. His Son, His eternal offspring, was thus the firstborn of all creation. God has a relationship with us so that we might have a relationship with Him. God makes creation, particularly the Church, His spouse. So we see that just as there is relationship within the Godhead and relationship within creation, so there is relationship between God and man and relationship between man and God, so that the relationship in God is fully reflected and fully manifested in creation and so that the relationship between God and man is brought to completion, to total intimacy, so that each possible connection is fulfilled. So the Son pours out His Blood upon the Cross for man, just as the Father pours Himself out to the Son, so that in return, just as a man pours out himself to his wife, so mankind may pour itself out to God in Christ. You should see, then, how the self-gift is made all around and is a mark of God's love. God became man to enable us to love like this. The Father pours out Himself to the Son, the Son pours Himself back. The Son pours out Himself to mankind, mankind pours itself back. The Son pours out mankind to the Father. In other words, the Son eternally pours Himself out the the Father, but, having become man and having died to claim man and having received man, the Son may now also pour man out to God in the very gift of Himself, for He has bound man to Himself in the Church. The entire dynamic of salvation is meant to mirror the Trinity's self-giving love. If God is not a Trinity, but only one, then this intimacy cannot exist, nor this self-gift. If God is not a Trinity, then there can be no love, but only coldness, rigidness, and harsh immutability. If God is not a Trinity, then there can be no Incarnation. If God is not a Trinity, then there can be no creation or redemption.

God is Tri-une, Three in One.

January 24, 2007

From Catholic.com

Is "Jehovah" God’s Name?

In Reasoning From the Scriptures the WTS teaches that "Jehovah" is the proper pronunciation of God’s name, and so "Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved" (Rom. 10:13). They continue, "Many scholars favor the spelling ‘Yahweh,’ but it is uncertain and there is not agreement among them. On the other hand, ‘Jehovah’ is the form of the name that is most readily recognized, because it has been used in English for centuries . . . " (p. 195).

However, the JWs’ own Aid to Bible Understanding says, "The first recorded use of this form [Jehovah] dates from the 13th century C.E. [after Christ]. Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk of the Dominican order, used it in his book Pugeo Fidei of the year 1270. Hebrew scholars generally favor ‘Yahweh’ as the most likely pronunciation" (pp. 884-885).

New Testament Greek always uses the word "Lord," and never "Jehovah," even in quotes from the Old Testament (OT). Encyclopedia Judaica, Webster’s Encyclopedia, Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Britannica, Universal Jewish Encyclopedia and countless others agree that the title "Jehovah" is erroneous, grammatically impossible, and was never used by the Jews.

January 24, 2007

its like a shamrock. three leafs yet still just one leaf!

January 24, 2007

Fulltruth, would you say that God is schizophrenic?

Genesis 1:26 "And he said: Let us make man to our image..."

Who is "us" and "our"? Or is he admitting that something other than Himself can create from nothing?

January 24, 2007

[quote name='Raphael' post='1175016' date='Jan 24 2007, 01:57 PM']
God is One and God is Three.

God is one because there can be no division in God. Naturally, if there was division in God, there would be three supreme beings. There can only be one supreme Being.

God is three because God is love. Love requires a lover and a lovee. Creation is not a sufficient recipient of God's love because creation can never receive God entirely. Therefore, the lovee must be eternal, like the Father. This means that there are at least two Persons in one Godhead. The love itself, that self-gift from God, is also a Person, because if the Father gives His whole self, then the flow of being from Father to Son must have the whole nature of the Father (this is why the Holy Spirit is always seen in Scripture as wind; He flows and moves in love; He is animate; He is the Lord, the Giver of Life).

Furthermore, we know that "Father" and "Son" are relational terms. One person cannot be in relation with himself. Two persons can have a relationship.

Further, the Son is the Word of the Father. He is the one eternal utterance of God. Just as any speech comes from what is inside the speaker, so the Son comes from inside His Father. Just as words express the person who speaks, so the Son expresses the Father, but where human nature fails, divine nature succeeds. The Son perfectly expresses His Father and thus has all that His Father has.

Now, this seems that we are saying that there are three separate beings, but this is not true. There is one being. The being, the essence, the nature of the Father is what the Father gives the Son. Therefore, there is one nature, one divinity which both Father and Son have at once. Note that this can only happen if the two dwell within one another, as Christ said, "that I am in you and you are in me, Father...that we are one." Jesus was not praying to Himself.

This is why we say: the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, yet the Father is not the Son, nor the Son the Holy Spirit, nor the Holy Spirit the Father, yet they are all of the same essence and nature, but distinct because of their relationships. A human father has children with a human mother, but God needs no human mother to have a Son. Therefore, while a human child only has half of his father's genes, because he also has his mother's, the Son of God has all of His Father's Nature, the divine Nature, and is all that His Father is, yet He is not His Father.

Thus God spoke in the beginning, saying, "we shall make man in our image," using the plural. Thus also, as part of man's nature, in order to image God all the more, God made man a social creature and gave Adam a wife, Eve. God wished to have a relationship also with creation and, in the fulness of time, sent His Son to be born of a woman. His Son, His eternal offspring, was thus the firstborn of all creation. God has a relationship with us so that we might have a relationship with Him. God makes creation, particularly the Church, His spouse. So we see that just as there is relationship within the Godhead and relationship within creation, so there is relationship between God and man and relationship between man and God, so that the relationship in God is fully reflected and fully manifested in creation and so that the relationship between God and man is brought to completion, to total intimacy, so that each possible connection is fulfilled. So the Son pours out His Blood upon the Cross for man, just as the Father pours Himself out to the Son, so that in return, just as a man pours out himself to his wife, so mankind may pour itself out to God in Christ. You should see, then, how the self-gift is made all around and is a mark of God's love. God became man to enable us to love like this. The Father pours out Himself to the Son, the Son pours Himself back. The Son pours out Himself to mankind, mankind pours itself back. The Son pours out mankind to the Father. In other words, the Son eternally pours Himself out the the Father, but, having become man and having died to claim man and having received man, the Son may now also pour man out to God in the very gift of Himself, for He has bound man to Himself in the Church. The entire dynamic of salvation is meant to mirror the Trinity's self-giving love. If God is not a Trinity, but only one, then this intimacy cannot exist, nor this self-gift. If God is not a Trinity, then there can be no love, but only coldness, rigidness, and harsh immutability. If God is not a Trinity, then there can be no Incarnation. If God is not a Trinity, then there can be no creation or redemption.

God is Tri-une, Three in One.
[/quote]
:bigclap:

January 25, 2007

[quote]God is One and God is Three.

God is one because there can be no division in God. Naturally, if there was division in God, there would be three supreme beings. There can only be one supreme Being.

God is three because God is love. Love requires a lover and a lovee. Creation is not a sufficient recipient of God's love because creation can never receive God entirely. Therefore, the lovee must be eternal, like the Father. This means that there are at least two Persons in one Godhead. The love itself, that self-gift from God, is also a Person, because if the Father gives His whole self, then the flow of being from Father to Son must have the whole nature of the Father (this is why the Holy Spirit is always seen in Scripture as wind; He flows and moves in love; He is animate; He is the Lord, the Giver of Life).

Furthermore, we know that "Father" and "Son" are relational terms. One person cannot be in relation with himself. Two persons can have a relationship.

Further, the Son is the Word of the Father. He is the one eternal utterance of God. Just as any speech comes from what is inside the speaker, so the Son comes from inside His Father. Just as words express the person who speaks, so the Son expresses the Father, but where human nature fails, divine nature succeeds. The Son perfectly expresses His Father and thus has all that His Father has.

Now, this seems that we are saying that there are three separate beings, but this is not true. There is one being. The being, the essence, the nature of the Father is what the Father gives the Son. Therefore, there is one nature, one divinity which both Father and Son have at once. Note that this can only happen if the two dwell within one another, as Christ said, "that I am in you and you are in me, Father...that we are one." Jesus was not praying to Himself.

This is why we say: the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, yet the Father is not the Son, nor the Son the Holy Spirit, nor the Holy Spirit the Father, yet they are all of the same essence and nature, but distinct because of their relationships. A human father has children with a human mother, but God needs no human mother to have a Son. Therefore, while a human child only has half of his father's genes, because he also has his mother's, the Son of God has all of His Father's Nature, the divine Nature, and is all that His Father is, yet He is not His Father.

Thus God spoke in the beginning, saying, "we shall make man in our image," using the plural. Thus also, as part of man's nature, in order to image God all the more, God made man a social creature and gave Adam a wife, Eve. God wished to have a relationship also with creation and, in the fulness of time, sent His Son to be born of a woman. His Son, His eternal offspring, was thus the firstborn of all creation. God has a relationship with us so that we might have a relationship with Him. God makes creation, particularly the Church, His spouse. So we see that just as there is relationship within the Godhead and relationship within creation, so there is relationship between God and man and relationship between man and God, so that the relationship in God is fully reflected and fully manifested in creation and so that the relationship between God and man is brought to completion, to total intimacy, so that each possible connection is fulfilled. So the Son pours out His Blood upon the Cross for man, just as the Father pours Himself out to the Son, so that in return, just as a man pours out himself to his wife, so mankind may pour itself out to God in Christ. You should see, then, how the self-gift is made all around and is a mark of God's love. God became man to enable us to love like this. The Father pours out Himself to the Son, the Son pours Himself back. The Son pours out Himself to mankind, mankind pours itself back. The Son pours out mankind to the Father. In other words, the Son eternally pours Himself out the the Father, but, having become man and having died to claim man and having received man, the Son may now also pour man out to God in the very gift of Himself, for He has bound man to Himself in the Church. The entire dynamic of salvation is meant to mirror the Trinity's self-giving love. If God is not a Trinity, but only one, then this intimacy cannot exist, nor this self-gift. If God is not a Trinity, then there can be no love, but only coldness, rigidness, and harsh immutability. If God is not a Trinity, then there can be no Incarnation. If God is not a Trinity, then there can be no creation or redemption.

God is Tri-une, Three in One.[/quote]

Your explanation of the Son being the recipient of the Love of the Father and the Holy Ghost being the Love of the Father and Son was good, as the Catechism of Trent says:

[quote name='The Catechism of the Council of Trent'] Let him, however, who by the divine bounty believes these truths, constantly beseech and implore God and the Father, who made all things out of nothing, and orders all things sweetly,39 who gave us power to become the sons of God,40 and who made known to the human mind the mystery of the Trinity - let him, I say, pray unceasingly that, admitted one day into the eternal tabernacles,41 he may be worthy to see how great is the fecundity of the Father, who contemplating and understanding Himself, begot the Son like and equal to Himself, how a love of charity in both, entirely the same and equal, which is the Holy Spirit, proceeding from the Father and the Son, connects the begetter and the begotten by an eternal and indissoluble bond; and that thus the Essence of the Trinity is one and the distinction of the Three Persons perfect.[/quote]

and it also says:

[quote name='The Catechism of the Council of Trent'] The Father, in particular, we call almighty, because He is the Source of all being; as we also attribute wisdom to the Son, because He is the eternal Word of the Father; and goodness to the Holy Spirit, because He is the love of both. These, however, and similar appellations, may be given indiscriminately to the Three Persons, according to the teaching of Catholic faith.*[/quote]

But I think the reason that God became Man was to redeem us:

[quote name='The Catechism of Pope St. Pius X']1 Q. What are we taught in the Second Article: And in Jesus Christ His only Son our Lord?
A. The Second Article of the Creed teaches us that the Son of God is the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity; that, like the Father, He is God eternal, omnipotent, Creator and Lord; that He became man to save us; and that the Son of God, made man, is called Jesus Christ. [/quote]

As to the question asked by with thread, which is "What should a Christian do if someone tells him that there is one God in three Persons". The answer would be "A Christian to whom has been told that there is one God in three Persons should agree that person that there is one God in three Persons because if a Christian does not believe that there is one God in three Persons, the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost, he is no longer a Christian, but a heretic."

Edited January 25, 2007 by StThomasMore

January 25, 2007

Of course the reason God became man was to redeem us, but what is redemption, if not the restoration and exaltation of man to and above his original place in creation? If Adam walked with God in the Garden of Eden, then it makes sense that redemption includes an aspect of unity and self-gift between God and man. I would argue that that is man's primary vocation, since the entire thing hinges on love.

STM, no offense, but you need to stop looking for things to disagree about. Most of the time, we believe the same things, you just like to argue so much that it's like you can't appreciate a single aspect of truth without criticizing that it's not the whole truth...I was explaining one aspect, not exhausting the theology of the Trinity. If I said something heretical, I'll humbly bow to your correction, but if your correction doesn't actually go against what I said, then I don't see your point in posting it. Can't you just say, "good reflection," and add your own input in a constructive way rather than making it sound like you're criticizing me (and others) for being incomplete?

January 26, 2007

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1174942' date='Jan 24 2007, 03:29 PM']

[color="#FF0000"]I want everybody to realize we are being brain washed by elites to believe we need Religion and Government and only our religion is the right one. I say dissolve them all and get rid of them, [/color] and let Yeshua take the government. Unfortunately, that day hasn't come to us yet. When it does, then Yeshua will teach all of us the right and true doctrine, tesifying what is of him and what is not of him..
[/quote]

Okay, we finally see your agenda and it is [color="#FF0000"]clear[/color].

[quote]Unfortunately, that day hasn't come to us yet.[/quote]

It sounds like you want to bring on the end of the world. man will govern manself, it has always been that way. even in the judaic tradition. we're not being brainwashed by elites, it is my opinion that others are being brainwashed by satan. like you said, he doesn't play fair.

ergo,

[quote]Yeshua will teach all of us the right and true doctrine, tesifying what is of him and what is not of him[/quote]

you see, Full of Truth, this event has already happened. It occured when Jesus Christ came to save us from sin. Teach us by His own mouth, and then give us the means to carry on what He commanded - that is to rule, not by authority, but by love...and compassion. Deus Caritas Est. If God is the supreme authority and God is love, then what is love? Love is the authority by which the Holy Catholic Church proclaims its message!!!

Now can you see?

Satan will use whatever means necessary to tear down that kind of love, to turn man against its brother until man exists no more.

In this effort, we all stumble. That is what reconcilliation is for. In this sacrament, we reconcile ourselves to Christ.

Historically speaking, God has ALWAYS used authority. He ordains it. Authority that is delivered by man. Man is not the authority, but God, through the instrument of man. That's how it's always been.

Unless you're a prophet, and I know you're not...I beg that you stop asking for the end times and the end of religion.

God talks to us all, but listening...listening is the key. Discernment. I want you to do something, though. I want you to be still, allow God to let this sink in, and listen to His word. I want you to think SLOWLY about what you are really asking and the consequence of such a demand. I know that we all want to get to Heaven as fast as we can, but surely, this is not the way.

Amen, brother.

January 26, 2007

The early athanasian creed states:

QUOTE
"the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God."

The word trias (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A.D. 180. He speaks of "the Trinity of God [the Father], His Word and His Wisdom ("Ad. Autol.", II, 15). The term may, of course, have been in use before his time. Afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian ("De pud." c. xxi). In the next century the word is in general use. It is found in many passages of Origen ("In Ps. xvii", 15). The first creed in which it appears is that of Origen's pupil, Gregory Thaumaturgus. In his Ekthesis tes pisteos composed between 260 and 270, he writes:

There is therefore nothing created, nothing subject to another in the Trinity: nor is there anything that has been added as though it once had not existed, but had entered afterwards: therefore the Father has never been without the Son, nor the Son without the Spirit: and this same Trinity is immutable and unalterable forever (P. G., X, 986).

Ever read Origen? Justin Martyr? How about Anslem DeProcessione, or Augustine's work on the trinity? I can give you a copy of these if you desire sir

January 30, 2007

Just know the truth and walk away. Pray. In the short run, you're not going to win.

January 30, 2007

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1174701' date='Jan 24 2007, 08:37 AM']
And yet Peter, the rock that Yeshua built his church on, said -

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of [b]Jesus Christ[/b] for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[/quote]

i don;t know if someone already addressed this, but here goes.

i too had the the same thought, but upon careful analysis, it is clear that st. peter uses this language to distinugiush the baptism of john the baptist from the baptism of christ. in other words, you must be baptized with the baptism commanded by Jesus, the one in the name of the father, son and holy spirit, even if you'd already been baptized by st. john the baptist.

that being said, there are numerous scripture quotations referencing the three Divine Persons in the one God, not to mention the Church Fathers. go read some

January 30, 2007

In regards to the above post, St. Paul also recognises that there is only One name in Heaven among whom we must be baptized. That name is Jesus Christ. Paul rejects those who would baptize in the name of James or Timothy or even himself.

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