Anybody Want To Discuss Holiness Here

[Jesus_lol]

stop with the "your not holy, because i said so" argument.
seriously why do you even bother saying, "i want to hear peoples opinions" if you refuse to listen to them? why dont you just say, "i want to hear people agree with me unanimously so i can justify my prejudices?"

this is the sort of stuff that gives christians a bad name.

Edited January 31, 2007 by Jesus_lol

[FullTruth]

[quote name='Fixxxer' post='1181189' date='Jan 31 2007, 02:32 AM']
How do you know I lack holiness? Why is there not room for both the music that i enjoy be it heavy metal and classical and God?
[/quote]
I will say no more of this Fixxxer. You and all the other mockers can go back to your lives and forget what I am saying here.

On yours and the other's question.

[quote name='1 Corinthians 5:6-8']Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.[/quote]

Having Rock and Classical music that doesn't honour the Lord, leavens your whole loaf. You have corrupted yourself with things that don't magnify the lord, and because of it your walk with the Lord has been hindered.

I shall pray for you to see the wisdom of the words of the Lord.

For the most part, I have not listened to one worldly rock music band in 9 years, and my walk with the Lord has been blessed by it.

May my testimony encourage you. Put those things away, and make the things of the spirit your only desire, that you may be found in our lord Yeshua/Jesus Christ.

[ardillacid]

Watching a conspiracy theory video doesn't praise God so it is satanic. Did I follow your logic correctly?

edit: You are right, I should just throw out all my music because a random person on the internet says so, but cannot back up his words with either logic or scripture that actually applies.

Edited January 31, 2007 by notardillacid

[Jesus_lol]

then where exactly do you get your "knowledge" of how satanic it is?

oh wait, that would be from [u]howtoholdaprejudicedopinion.com[/u]

[FullTruth]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1181216' date='Jan 31 2007, 03:26 AM']
Watching a conspiracy theory video doesn't praise God so it is satanic. Did I follow your logic correctly?
[/quote]
You're a cleaver one.

I will not go argue with you.

It is not what you do that matters, but why you do it, and the message it brings.

Holiness is a matter of the heart. If you desire to to love YHWH, you will do these things naturally, because you walk in the spirit. Every waking moment is spent in worship of the Lord by doing the work on your job well, because you want to leave a witness to your co-workers, loving your family because you want to leave a witness to them, helping your community because you want to leave a witness to them, keeping good finances because you want to leave a witness to people, reading godly books (The Bible is the only book I read now) because you want to leave a witness, keeping the temple of the Holy Ghost fit and holy because you want to leave a witness, praying and worshipping because you want to leave a witness to the world, being a good and godly friend to people, because you want to leave a witness.

That is what the bible means by the pure of heart. The heart is the center of desire. Where is your desire, because where your desire is, that is what you reap.

You mockers can desire your wordly rock music, as for me I will walk the path of the spirit to leave a witness that I haven't listen to rock music for 9 years, and that my walk with the lord, to live in purity and holiness has allowed YHWH to entrust me with visions, prophecies, and miracles that I will not say for I must decrease and he must increase.

Edited January 31, 2007 by FullTruth

[ardillacid]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1181228' date='Jan 31 2007, 02:40 AM']
You're a cleaver one.
[/quote]
I wish
[quote]It is not what you do that matters, but why you do it, and the message it brings.[/quote]
I partially agree with you. If you are doing something wrong, your intent doesn't really matter, its still evil. If you do something morally neutral or good, then it matters what your intent is. It seems to me that most listen to rock/classical for the same reason people like a good steak or a cold beer: its pleasing to the senses, not because they worship lucifer. Nowhere does Christ tell us to swear off all that is pleasing to the senses.

[FullTruth]

[quote name='notardillacid' post='1181239' date='Jan 31 2007, 04:01 AM']
I wish

I partially agree with you. If you are doing something wrong, your intent doesn't really matter, its still evil. If you do something morally neutral or good, then it matters what your intent is. It seems to me that most listen to rock/classical for the same reason people like a good steak or a cold beer: its pleasing to the senses, not because they worship lucifer. Nowhere does Christ tell us to swear off all that is pleasing to the senses.
[/quote]

Pleasing of the senses, you say.

[quote name='Galatians 5:15-17']This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.[/quote]

Scripture says not to fufill the lust of the flesh, I would say pleasing the senses have a lot to do with the lust of the flesh, and I can prove it further in scripture.

[quote name='1 John 2:15-16']Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.[/quote]

So the Christ didn't say not to deny what pleases the senses, but he said this.

[quote name='Matthew 6:33']But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.[/quote]

Seek the kingdom, and his righteousness and holiness, and total peace in the spirit will be added to you, praise the lord.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1181248' date='Jan 31 2007, 03:16 AM']
Pleasing of the senses, you say.
Scripture says not to fufill the lust of the flesh, I would say pleasing the senses have a lot to do with the lust of the flesh, and I can prove it further in scripture.
[/quote]
Firstly, I would say that when the Bible references the lustings of the flesh, it refers to [i]sinful[/i] desires. God gave us our human senses, and in the Garden, the senses were perfectly pleasured. Every want was fulfilled. So how can you say all desires should be repressed? They shouldn't. But that doesn't mean we let them run loose. We master ouselves. [b]Everything in moderation![/b]
according to my dictionary (aside from sexual references) [quote]Lust: a passionate or [b]overmastering desire[/b] or craving.[/quote]
I think that is key, right there

[quote][b]So the Christ didn't say not to deny what pleases the senses, [/b]but he said this.
Seek the kingdom, and his righteousness and holiness, and total peace in the spirit will be added to you, praise the lord.[/quote]
Thank you. I'm glad we can agree on something.

[Mateo el Feo]

FullTruth,

If your interest in this topic comes from a hope of conforming your life to God's Will, I would strongly recommend the following book: [url="http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Devout-Life-Francis-Sales/dp/0385030096/sr=8-1/qid=1170232766/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-0087848-9919312?ie=UTF8&s=books"]Introduction to the Devout Life[/url] by St. Francis de Sales

It's down-to-earth in discussing the spiritual life. I would recommend a few pages at a time, treating it as devotional reading (i.e. not racing to the end).

Quoting Amazon: "One of the great religious masterpieces of all time--a spiritual guide for everyone seeking to live a truly Christian life."

It was a life-changing book for me, and I'm sure you would find good fruit by reflecting on its wisdom.

Edited January 31, 2007 by Mateo el Feo

[KnightofChrist]

Many Heavy Metal Bands are satanic, use satanic words, symbols or both. Many famous metal bands do this...

If a band uses satanic words, or symbols nope we should not listen or support that band.

Yet, there are some bands which would not be satanic per say but they do and we know they do promote things which are absolutely contrary to Jesus Christ. If Christ would not listen to it we should not listen to it.

Christ would not enjoy Metallica in many cases their "message" is contrary to His.

But just because a band is "Heavy Metal" does not equal satanic. It is the words they use, and the symbols they mark themselves with.

There are many of Christian Heavy Metal Bands that preach Christ.

Edited January 31, 2007 by KnightofChrist

[Katholikos]

Full Truth, do you keep [b]all [/b] the commandments of Deuteronomy (and the rest of the OT)?

Believing that "a woman shall not wear anything pertaining to a man" would mean that women should not wear ANYTHING, since men wear dress-like garments in certain cultures. If women therefore can't wear pants and can't wear dresses, what's left for them to wear?

Should we also have our rebellious sons stoned to death, to "purge this evil from our midst" as the 22nd chapter of Deuteronomy (22:18-21) also commands?

Do you keep all of the Jewish feasts? And the dietary laws?
Or do you pick and choose among the 613 OT commandments? How do you know which ones YHWH wants you to obey and which you can ignore?

Of what use is an infallible Bible without an infallible teacher? Are you an infallible reader? The only rightful interpreter of the Scriptures is the Catholic Church, founded by Christ for the salvation of the world, through whom the New Testament was written and the Bible was given to us.

The 2,000-year-old CHURCH, who is "the household of God, the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth" (1 Tm 3:15), is our teacher.

Your desire for holiness is a very good thing. But you need the guidance of the Church to achieve it. We're all called to become saints.

Peace be with you, Jay

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1181136' date='Jan 31 2007, 12:43 AM']
I give you no other proof other than I believe in the Christ, and he rose from the dead.

I do not entertain those who seek signs, and for me to prove the things of the spirit. I say repent and make your way holy before the Lord and you will see what I am saying is true.

Fixxer, I want to thank you. You just testified of what I have been saying to others in this post. Holiness is a desire, and you lack it.
[/quote]
See here is where we draw the line. You may disagree with someones opinion, but saying someone lacks holiness is judgemental and unchristian. God alone judges hearts and holiness, not you.

[123]

[quote]In today's world with men wearing long hair, having tatoos, and smoking up a storm, and women with short hair, wearing practically nothing, and going to bars - acting so permissive it isn't funny, I think it is a time to talk about a revival of sorts[/quote]

Sounds fun...Smoking, Having a good ale, or enjoying time at a bar ( modestly of course.) is not an obstacle to holiness, tattoss arent either, they seem tacky to me, but they are not mentioned in Bible as condeming our walk with God. I guess I don't get the women with short hair either, their really isnt anywhere in the Scriptures that says that women should have only long hair.

[cmotherofpirl]

Full truth you migft be interested in this thread:
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=63787"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=63787[/url]


BTW:I have long hair, wear pants, don't smoke , but drink alcohol, and listen to classical music.

not quite as satanic as you thought

[123]

[quote]not quite as satanic as you thought

[/quote]


...That we know of...

[Sarcasm] You know them-their Christians, always know'n about da devil
and shtuff. Gotta' be keepin yah eyeballz out for dem.[/Sarcasm]

[FullTruth]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1181359' date='Jan 31 2007, 12:16 PM']
Full truth you migft be interested in this thread:
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=63787"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=63787[/url]
BTW:I have long hair, wear pants, don't smoke , but drink alcohol, and listen to classical music.

not quite as satanic as you thought
[/quote]
Reprove taken and appreciated.

And for living in such a way, may I ask, is there peace and joy in it, for following the one you love that you wear your hair long, and don't smoke.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1181486' date='Jan 31 2007, 04:05 PM']
Reprove taken and appreciated.

And for living in such a way, may I ask, is there peace and joy in it, for following the one you love that you wear your hair long, and don't smoke.
[/quote]

Those choices are not religious in nature. My hair is long because its easier to let it grow than go to beauty parlors etc, and smoking disgusts me.

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='FullTruth' post='1180946' date='Jan 30 2007, 10:35 PM']
In today's world with men wearing long hair, having tatoos, and smoking up a storm, and women with short hair, wearing practically nothing, and going to bars - acting so permissive it isn't funny, I think it is a time to talk about a revival of sorts.
I think TV, worldy music like Metalica, and watching movies with graphic violence, and doesn't praise YHWH are sin before YHWH. If there is to be a massive turning to the true church, we need to institute some new holiness standards.

I've often said, YHWH is the only authority in my life. I obey human authorities, but only when they are in agreement with YHWH. Here's some things to think about, if YHWH is the authority of your life as well.

If the Lord is your authority in life, you won't want to watch TV because you won't put any evil thing before your eyes.

If the Lord is your authority in life, you won't wear pants if you are a Girl, because he considers that an abomination.

If the Lord is your authority in life, you won't cut your hair if your are a girl and will keep your hair short for a man.

Why, because all of this is Scriptural.
YHWH wants men to look like men, and women to look like women, and
not watch TV.

I'm not saying men living in Scotland can't wear kilts, but kilts are quite 'manly' in Scotland.

But don't you think women should look a little more femine, and men to be more manly. I know it's not PC to say such stuff, but where is being PC taking us, straight to liberal morals. In the 1920s, women started to get hair cuts, by the 1960s there was abortions and homosexuality driven by feminism.

I watch TV, but now I will not. YHWH wants me not to watch wicked things, and there is nothing more wicked than TV, with 'baywatch babes', 'big brother houses', and fear inducing tv shows, I consider them evil and not to be in my household.

However, I've never struggled with wearing dresses. LOL!

And you only have to read all the scriptures from this bible search query to understand, being drunken is not a good thing.

[url="http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=drunken&qs_version=9"]Drunken search topic from Biblegateway.com[/url]

What are your opinions, if you don't mind.
[/quote]

Yourself and the Taliban would have much in common. Should men be forced to have beards? The Taliban think so. We live under the New Covenant. God wants a circumcision of the heart, not of outward things. Haircuts are the least of our problems, IMHO. I think we all need to focus on charity, love, and graciousness. To be honest, I agree with much of what you say about popular culture. But holiness has to come from within as a faith response to God. The minute you start proscribing / requiring anything, you're back under the Old Covenant. BTW, if we want to start throwing scripture around, how about this: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28

[Urib2007]

Tattoos are wrong in God's eyes because of what God stated in His Word. If you look at Leviticus 19:28, you'll see that the Lord plainly and clearly condemns the tattoo.

[b]Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
Leviticus 19:28[/b]

I agree with worldly music though. I saw a documentary called "They Sold Their Souls For Rock & Roll" from Goodfight Ministries and it was a real eye opener concerning the music from the past and today. There is so much proof that most music performers are indeed very dark and into satanism. The documentary even shows the performers themselves talking about their allegiance with satan including quotes from interviews.
Metallica was displayed in that documentary, but I'm not aware of what they're believing nowadays. If they are Christians, then praise the Lord Jesus. Charles Manson would play the Beatles to incite his "cult followers" to kill. He even stated that in his interviews and former Manson follower, Susan Atkins, stated that as well. So, music does indeed have a major impact on the listener. Remember the Columbine killings? The two young killers were fans of Marilyn Manson and other rock bands and the music eventually drove them to kill all those innocent victims at school.

I don't watch much TV anyway because it's garbage. So much sex, violence, homosexuality, and blasphemy on TV anyway. TV and movies have become very evil and it's interesting to hear how Madonna doesn't even let her children watch TV because she of all people knows the damage TV does to people. Funny to hear her do that, right?

[kenrockthefirst]

[quote name='Urib2007' post='1181520' date='Jan 31 2007, 05:37 PM']
Tattoos are wrong in God's eyes because of what God stated in His Word. If you look at Leviticus 19:28, you'll see that the Lord plainly and clearly condemns the tattoo.

[b]Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.
Leviticus 19:28[/b][/quote]

The key passage in the text you cited is "for the dead." God didn't want his people following the pagan practices of the nations around them. Hence, not boiling a kid in its mother's milk, nor cutting their forelocks, etc. If you're going to refer to the Old Testament, particularly Leviticus, why aren't we living by the rest of the provisions set out therein? We live under the New Covenant. "For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love." Gal. 5:6