Teaching About The CC

[dairygirl4u2c]

i'm not saying you suffer from disunity. i'm saying you're causing disunity amoung christian denominations and groups and people as you claim to be the one chruch, when hte one church does have a head like the CC. you are saying you are right when you are not. is the argument.

[Knight of the Holy Rosary]

So...our unity causes disunity?

We profess Catholicism to be the one true Christian Church because it was in fact established by Christ Himself; historically speaking you cannot get around this.

Edited February 6, 2007 by Knight of the Holy Rosary

[catholimaniac]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1186518' date='Feb 6 2007, 05:38 PM']
i'm not saying you suffer from disunity. i'm saying you're causing disunity amoung christian denominations and groups and people as you claim to be the one chruch, when hte one church does have a head like the CC. you are saying you are right when you are not. is the argument.
[/quote]


Let's see...you're blaming the Catholic Church for 50,000+ Protestant denominations and sects?

[Katholikos]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1186477' date='Feb 6 2007, 04:46 PM']
**The fruits of Non-denominationalism are disunity and confusion.**

It could easily be argued jsut as well that the fruits of the CC are disunity and confusion. Disunity as because if the church were not like the CC but more like the orthodox... then the CC is the one causing the disunity by claiming to be the one when it's not, and being too strict.
You can figure out confusion.

how about I just say the altnerative church is the orthodox church. maybe not hte orthodox church per se, but a structure similar to the orthodox.
[/quote]Drum roll, please. Dairygirl is about to announce a new denomination -- the Similar To But Not Quite Orthodox Church, the One True Church founded by Jesus Christ for the salvation of the world (NOT).

[Mr.Cat]

We as Catholics should promote [u]academic freedom and discussion[/u] to allow all sides of the argument to be proposed and defended, but at the same time as Catholics we are to promote [u]legitimacy to propose what is right and proper [b]giving it primacy[/b][/u]. We benefit to understand the many perspectives of Saint Peter the Apostle and the Papacy, but we must not confuse understanding their position with the [u]accepting of truth that [b]our Blessed Lord founded the Church upon Saint Peter the Apostle[/b] to be the first [b][color="#FF0000"]Vicar of Christ[/color][/b][/u].

I vote yes...

Edited February 7, 2007 by Mr.CatholicCat

[dairygirl4u2c]

the 50000 sects, which is actually probably more given individual people beliefs are like churches... they at least usually can say they think they are right, but not necessarily. the CC insists it's right. if the true church is not suppose to consist of people saying they are necessarily right, the CC is the primary church causing disunity amoung the different churches.

[Knight of the Holy Rosary]

The Church is not about 'always being right'. The Scriptures state that the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. It's not about 'I'm right and your'e wrong', Jesus Christ has sent His Holy Spirit to guide His Church.

[quote]the CC is the primary church causing disunity amoung the different churches.[/quote]

This is rediculous.
What would you prefer the Church to say? "We are not guided by the Holy Spirit. We are not the Church of Jesus Christ. Jesus didn't mean it when He said He would be with us until the end of time and Him telling Peter to feed His sheep was just a joke." ?

Edited February 7, 2007 by Knight of the Holy Rosary

[dairygirl4u2c]

If the CC was the one true church, then it would be legit for it to claim and it wouldn't be a source of disunity. (well, it would, but only disunity from those who are not in the truth but i digress)

If the CC is not the one true church, then it is a source of disunity.

[eilis]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1186815' date='Feb 6 2007, 09:14 PM']
If the CC was the one true church, then it would be legit for it to claim and it wouldn't be a source of disunity. (well, it would, but only disunity from those who are not in the truth but i digress)

If the CC is not the one true church, then it is a source of disunity.
[/quote]

But the CC [i]is[/i] the one true church. I'm confused about your position. Do you disagree with that?

[dairygirl4u2c]

i'm actually undecided whether it is true or not. i live life erring on the side that it is not true.

my only point to remind you is that others who think the CC is wrong would say the CC is then a source of disunity.

[eilis]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1186851' date='Feb 6 2007, 09:39 PM']
i'm actually undecided whether it is true or not. i live life erring on the side that it is not true.

my only point to remind you is that others who think the CC is wrong would say the CC is then a source of disunity.
[/quote]

What would their argument for that be?

[Socrates]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1186777' date='Feb 6 2007, 08:53 PM']
the 50000 sects, which is actually probably more given individual people beliefs are like churches... they at least usually can say they think they are right, but not necessarily. the CC insists it's right. if the true church is not suppose to consist of people saying they are necessarily right, the CC is the primary church causing disunity amoung the different churches.
[/quote]
Afraid I can't follow what you're saying here.

The Catholic Church is the primary cause of disunity among churches??

Are you implying that if the Roman Catholic Church suddenly ceased to exist, the other Christian denominations would all fall into unity and agreement with one another?

I think not.
Look at all the division and contension between liberal and conservative branches of the Anglican/Episcopalian churches over homosexual issues, to use just one example.

Since the Protestant Revolt, churches have continued to divide and split to this very day.

[Mr.Cat]

[quote][b]Matthew 16:18[/b]
"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/47016.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/47016.htm[/url][/quote][quote][b]Apocalypse 21:9 & 14 [/b]
"And there came one of the seven angels, who had the vials full of the seven last plagues, and spoke with me, saying: Come, and I will shew thee the bride, the wife of the Lamb... And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them, the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/73021.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/73021.htm[/url][/quote]Our Blessed Lord founds a single Church upon Saint Peter the Apostle according to the four Gospels; listed is the Gospel of Saint Matthew the Apostle ( [url="http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintm13.htm"]http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintm13.htm[/url] ). Then in the [b]Apocalypse of Saint John the Apostle[/b] ([i]The Book of Revelation[/i]) it says that the Church, the bride of the lamb, is the city having twelve foundations or pillars that are the twelve apostles; written by Saint John the Apostle ( [url="http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintj13.htm"]http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintj13.htm[/url] ). Protestants generally object to Saint Peter the Apostle ( [url="http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintp07.htm"]http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintp07.htm[/url] ) being the rock that our Blessed Lord founded His Church because this would increase the argument for the papacy and the Catholic Church claiming succession from Saint Peter the Apostle ( [url="http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintp07.htm"]http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintp07.htm[/url] ). Moreover, because it is in the singular it would show that there is only one Church and the only Church that existed until the Protestant Reformation (more properly called deformation) was the Catholic Church under the Pope.[quote][b]1 Corinthians 3:11[/b]
"For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus."
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/53003.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/53003.htm[/url][/quote][quote][b]Ephesians 2:20[/b]
"Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone:"
[url="http://www.drbo.org/chapter/56002.htm"]http://www.drbo.org/chapter/56002.htm[/url][/quote]Protestants often argue from Saint Paul the Apostle's ( [url="http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintp12.htm"]http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintp12.htm[/url] ) writing that our Blessed Lord is the only foundation found in the letter to the Corinthians. Although, this does not refer to our Blessed Lord being the rock but rather it refers that "only" our Blessed Lord may found the Church or lay the foundation for the Church, which is the teachings He taught and the founding of His Church upon Saint Peter the Apostle ( [url="http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintp07.htm"]http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintp07.htm[/url] ). How we can show this is true is because Saint Paul the Apostle ( [url="http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintp12.htm"]http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintp12.htm[/url] ) writes to the Ephesians that the Church is built upon the Apostles but that our Blessed Lord is the chief cornerstone.[quote]"See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid." [b]Ignatius of Antioch, Epistle to the Smyrneans (A.D. 110)[/b]
[url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0109.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0109.htm[/url][/quote][quote]"Was anything withheld from the knowledge of Peter, who is called "the rock on which the church should be built," who also obtained "the keys of the kingdom of heaven," with the power of 'loosing and binding in heaven and on earth?'" [b]Tertullian, On the Prescription Against the Heretics (A.D. 200)[/b]
[url="http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0311.htm"]http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0311.htm[/url][/quote]Moreover Saint Ignatius of Antioch ( [url="http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/sainti05.htm"]http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/sainti05.htm[/url] ) in "about" the year one hundred and ten (110) he wrote that the Church is Catholic. It is the first of many other statements that are written in this age that the Church is Catholic. Then in about the year two hundred (200) we see that the Christians have a very clear understanding that Saint Peter the Apostle ( [url="http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintp07.htm"]http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/saintp07.htm[/url] ) is the rock that is referred to in the Scriptures. So the Scriptures and the Early Fathers clearly are referring of the Catholic Church.

Edited February 7, 2007 by Mr.CatholicCat

[Socrates]

[quote name='dairygirl4u2c' post='1186851' date='Feb 6 2007, 09:39 PM']
i'm actually undecided whether it is true or not. i live life erring on the side that it is not true.
[/quote]
If you suspect that the Catholic Church is the True Church, then wouldn't it be safer to err on the side that it is?

Edited February 7, 2007 by Socrates

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='catholimaniac' post='1186372' date='Feb 6 2007, 02:01 PM']
The other side of the story:

The Catholic Church is an apostate church whose members consisted of mostly pagans who brought in their idols and rituals and corrupted the true faith. The Catholic Church was founded either by Constantine @303 AD or by Pope Boniface III in 666 AD. (Even anti-Catholics can't seem to agree on a place, person or date)

The True Church was made up of Bible believing Christians who remained hidden from the world and was violently persecuted by the Romish church for centuries until they finally reappeared as today's emergent/simple/organic/NT/house church movement. Thank God, these bible believing Christians kept the true faith alive through two millenia!

What a facsinating story! I can see it now.... [b]HIDDEN CHURCH: THE MOVIE[/b]
[/quote]


oh my...now where did I put my tinfoil hat....ah yes! Down in the basement......