Homophobia

[Nathan]

I'm pretty sure that we've all heard charges of homophobia being thrown around these days, in the media and in our daily life. It's a very popular label. I have heard many times that the Catholic Church is homophobic because of its stance on homosexual sex and gay marriage; I have personally been called a homophobe simply on the grounds of my being a Mass-attending Catholic (without my even touching on Church teaching on these issues). Conservative-minded people, those who uphold the traditional definition of marriage, are routinely called homophobes as if it were the most obvious thing in the world. All in all, there seems to be a lot of homophobes about there!

What [i]is[/i] homophobia? I am assuming that it is a fear of homosexuality and homosexuals, similar to other phobias, like arachnophobia (fear of spiders) or claustrophobia (fear of small spaces). Now, there are certainly homophobes among us, men and women who are genuinely afraid of homosexuals and homosexuality and who might act out against them in aggressive ways, verbally or physically, to suppress their fears. (Usually, it is the case of men who have been molested or who have experimented as children, and are left to struggle with painful questions about their sexuality for the rest of their lives.) I've met them. But is it in any way honest to label all who [i]disagree[/i] with the homosexual way of life and its contemporary political tenets as homophobes? That everyone from Pope John Paul II and Ronald Reagan, to little old ladies praying the rosary, are homophobes? Frankly, it is ridiculous.

There is a marked difference between fear and disagreement, and it should be plainly obvious to everyone that the vast majority of those who believe that homosexual acts are morally wrong are not suffering from a psycho-sexual phobia. Yet the parade of appointed "homophobes" in the world seems to expand every day, to anyone who dares to question the gay agenda. And it isn't just young radicals who engage in this smear activity, but highly-educated older people, people in high positions in society. Do they not recognize their fallacy?

Thoughts?

[Didymus]

I really don't like how someone claims merely that homosexuality is unnatural and they're immediately categorized with the fundamentalist haters who believe that all homesexuals go to hell. The Church teaches always to love, and it's hard to show that the Church doesnt hate and that the good Catholic doesnt judge, but wants to help the issue because many times there really is a psychological problem beneath the sin.

[Veritas]

[quote name='Nathan' post='1190965' date='Feb 10 2007, 06:26 PM']
I'm pretty sure that we've all heard charges of homophobia being thrown around these days, in the media and in our daily life. It's a very popular label. I have heard many times that the Catholic Church is homophobic because of its stance on homosexual sex and gay marriage; I have personally been called a homophobe simply on the grounds of my being a Mass-attending Catholic (without my even touching on Church teaching on these issues). Conservative-minded people, those who uphold the traditional definition of marriage, are routinely called homophobes as if it were the most obvious thing in the world. All in all, there seems to be a lot of homophobes about there!

What [i]is[/i] homophobia? I am assuming that it is a fear of homosexuality and homosexuals, similar to other phobias, like arachnophobia (fear of spiders) or claustrophobia (fear of small spaces). Now, there are certainly homophobes among us, men and women who are genuinely afraid of homosexuals and homosexuality and who might act out against them in aggressive ways, verbally or physically, to suppress their fears. (Usually, it is the case of men who have been molested or who have experimented as children, and are left to struggle with painful questions about their sexuality for the rest of their lives.) I've met them. But is it in any way honest to label all who [i]disagree[/i] with the homosexual way of life and its contemporary political tenets as homophobes? That everyone from Pope John Paul II and Ronald Reagan, to little old ladies praying the rosary, are homophobes? Frankly, it is ridiculous.

There is a marked difference between fear and disagreement, and it should be plainly obvious to everyone that the vast majority of those who believe that homosexual acts are morally wrong are not suffering from a psycho-sexual phobia. Yet the parade of appointed "homophobes" in the world seems to expand every day, to anyone who dares to question the gay agenda. And it isn't just young radicals who engage in this smear activity, but highly-educated older people, people in high positions in society. Do they not recognize their fallacy?

Thoughts?
[/quote]

+

Well said. This is an excellent post. I would add that I think it is natural and healthy to have an aversion (a feeling of sickness and an instinct to look away), when confronted with the homosexual act. It is dangerous that we are loosing that because it is a deeper indication of our lack of appreciation of proper order and the dignity of male and female complementarity. That being said, we can have (and should) have that aversion and still be able to talk and speak with any individual experiencing SSA with kindness and respect for their life in general (not any sinful parts).

[Starets]

The problem is that they don't seem to think of it as a fallacy. They even think they have scientific evidence that people who disagree with homosexuality on moral (or ANY) grounds are doing so because they are afraid of their own possible homosexuality. It's based on a whole one psychology experiment several decades ago.

[jeffpugh]

This is all well put. I've had the same problem a couple of years ago with the whole labeling issue because I showed opposition to this abominable sin. I think they society's agenda in general is the suicidal desire of letting go of control and not taking account for their actions. I must agree with Varitas on the comment about being disgusted about SSA and actions. The worst thing that can happen is that every single person finds it banal and passes it off as a normality or something that can not be stopped. Most definitely treat these people with respect because of their dignity as humans. I get a lot of comments such as, "so you're Catholic. Do you hate gay people?" I sort of look at them funny and say "no, but I hate their actions" (Then they try the same question on me with Hitler, but that's neither here nor there). Anyways, good post. Just pray for them. †

[track2004]

I think some people are legitimately homophobic, but I think it is a lot like xenophobia. Not many people are afraid of people of different cultures, and even if you don't agree with the culture doesn't mean that we all can't work together. I am okay with some people being 'grossed out' by homosexual acts, but I get upset when people freak out when they see someone who is homosexual just like walking around or chilling, not doing anything. I don't think that calling people homophobic is a good move to make in any intelligent argument, but I think there are misunderstandings and other issues motivating both sides.

I would also like to say that there is a distinct possibility that the psychological experiment can't be repeated because of newer ethics rules that the APA decided we should all follow. The Stanford Prison Experiment was only done once, and we still all agree it was valid. Some things just can't be repeated now because we have to be nice to the participants.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='track2004' post='1191165' date='Feb 10 2007, 11:15 PM']
, but I get upset when people freak out when they see someone who is homosexual just like walking around or chilling, not doing anything.
[/quote]


If someone is just walking around how would you know they are homosexual?

[Nathan]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1191170' date='Feb 10 2007, 11:20 PM']
If someone is just walking around how would you know they are homosexual?
[/quote]

You live in a small town, don't you?

[catholicinsd]

I think we need to remember a couples when discussing this issue- both sides agree this is not choosen. And, homosexuality itself is not sinful- sexual acts, hetro or homosexaul are the sin. Not the orientation.

[KnightofChrist]

The thought of the act is just as sinful however... "If a man look upon a woman with lust he as already committed adultery."

[catholicinsd]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1191252' date='Feb 11 2007, 12:20 AM']
The thought of the act is just as sinful however... "If a man look upon a woman with lust he as already committed adultery."
[/quote]

That's what I'm saying.

[KnightofChrist]

awesome

[Paddington]

There are tons of things that we all have been inclined to from our earliest memories that are sin. That are deeply ingrained in us and stay with us until death. Selfishness. Anger. Pride. Hetero-lust. Violence. Greed. Lying. On and on and on.

There are not that many people in the world who really get what they want out of life anyways, and on that note, homosexuals are not near the martyrs they sometimes are made out to be. Although it is sad that they can not marry with their preferred gender. Lots of people can't get married. Lots more have bad marriages. Some people don't have food, water and medicine. God is letting all these things happen all over the world. I'm just trying to get at a balanced view of what is sad about our existence.

Then, there is the seemingly Biblical idea that the vast majority of mankind goes to hell anyways. In this way too, they are not nearly as singled out as some would have us think.

BUT, there are some people out there who really hate gays too. Lots of non-religious people too. And some fringe wackos are, as we speak, lurking around and trying to find a homo to bash his skull in for being gay. There could be many bashed skulls tonight because of that evil mindset. There are even some sick people that don't want gays to be allowed to visit their significant others in the hospital during the off-hours. And there is the thing about denying medical benefits to partners of gays who do the same amount of work as the heteros at their place of employment. That stuff is very wrong to me.

[track2004]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1191170' date='Feb 10 2007, 11:20 PM']
If someone is just walking around how would you know they are homosexual?
[/quote]

Well gaydar or rumors or they are with their s.o. Then there's the obviously homosexual, but that's always debatable, yet I've seen kids who are straight get called names because they seemed gay.

And really, I mean if you aren't catching them in the act how do you know anyone is homosexual unless they flat tell you. Just because someone argues for gay rights doesn't mean they are gay (and I've seen the allies be attacked before).

[SJRod55]

[quote]I've seen kids who are straight get called names because they seemed gay.

And really, I mean if you aren't catching them in the act how do you know anyone is homosexual unless they flat tell you. Just because someone argues for gay rights doesn't mean they are gay (and I've seen the allies be attacked before).[/quote]

So true. Also it is a cultural thing. In Ethiopia for example the men hold hands walking down the street, even soldiers and policement. In Italy, Greece and Turkey men carry purses in their hands ... culture plays a significant role in the perception of what is happening. Don't believe everything you 'see' even with your own eyes .. you need to scratch below the surface.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='catholicinsd' post='1191233' date='Feb 11 2007, 01:13 AM']
I think we need to remember a couples when discussing this issue- both sides agree this is not choosen. And, homosexuality itself is not sinful- sexual acts, hetro or homosexaul are the sin. Not the orientation.
[/quote]
WRONG! That is the sort of mis-information that clouds the issue. The TRUTH is that being sexually attracted IS NOT NECESSARILY chosen but can be. Sexaul appetites and sexual mores are learned, chosen, and developed.

People who have a pro-homo agenda bring up the idea that homosexual attraction isn't chosen as if that is the rule. Sexual attraction is a combination of 'born nature' and 'environment'. If you read the RC Catechism about it, you wouldn't be so wrong and confused as a R Catholic.

Or you could listen to Bishops and.... (nevermind).

[KnightofChrist]

The same claims are made for any sin. Its not my fault I was born this way, and I grew up in a bad neighborhood.

Its just shifting personal responsibility.

[Didymus]

No one is born gay

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1191460' date='Feb 11 2007, 11:08 AM']
No one is born gay
[/quote]That is strictly opinion but according to the RCChurch, it doesn't matter if you are or aren't born 'gay', or whatever reasons people are 'gay'

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. [b]Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained.[/b] Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 [b]They are contrary to the natural law.[/b] They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. [b]Under no circumstances can they be approved[/b].

Edited February 11, 2007 by Anomaly

[Proud2BCatholic139]

Homosexuals are called to the consecrated single life.
The can not help how the feel, but must offer up their sufferings to God.
We must despise the sin, not the sinner.