Pontifite 7 of 10 Posted February 12, 2007 Posted February 12, 2007 Okey, this is about my friend who is 15 years old and she has a problum. Her whole family is converting into Catholic Christions but her mom dosn't seem to understand sonething, the church is against birth control. And once my friend hits her period her mom is going to make her take birth control because she dosen't trust her or something (I don't get it either). Is this O.K-ed by the church? Is she held responcible for something by taking it? Her mom is going to make her.
peach_cube Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 It is really easy to forget to take those things... I have trouble remebering to take my blood pressure medicine and I NEED that.
MissScripture Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 Hey! That reminds me, I need to take my meds!
Didacus Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 Mere et pere tu honoreras. Life you shall respect. Talk about being caught between hell and a hot place! (sorry about that, I get that way sometimes) She needs to respect the wishes of her mother, but she must respect the wishes of the Lord first. If she does everything within reason to resist taking birth control, and her mother forces her to it; I for one would not claim this girl as guilty; but her resistance has to be sincere. Make certain the mother knows the potention effects of birth control (expecially the pill which can be specifically destructive to young woman). I would suggest a condom as a compromise - she keeps a condom on her at all times 'just in case', and then it is on her never to be in a situation where she would be tempted to use it. That way her body is free, her will is clean, and hopefully the mother respects her daughter enough to accept this compromise.
Church Punk Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 Her mother does not really understand the teachings of the Church on this one. Perhaps if you can talk to your friend and help her realize the Chruchs teaching on this matter, you and your friends family will see what the consquences are and bring it out into the light. There are many websites to help you. I suggest that you point her to some material by Christopher West. [url="http://www.christopherwest.com/"]http://www.christopherwest.com/[/url] Here is his website. Get the see it, learn it, live it. Prayers for your friend at this time.
Birgitta Noel Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 I just want to point out that regardless of the other issues of the side effects/risks of the pill and honoring one's parents (which I don't think applies here) that there is nothing inherently immoral in taking birth control if one is abstinent. If she is not having sex she is not contracepting and thus not contradicting Church teaching.
EcceNovaFacioOmni Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 When obeying parents means disobeying God's Law, there is no obligation to obey the parents.
Birgitta Noel Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 [quote name='thedude' post='1193099' date='Feb 12 2007, 10:39 PM'] When obeying parents means disobeying God's Law, there is no obligation to obey the parents. [/quote] But again, I don't see how she's disobeying God's law. There was no indication that the girl is having or intends to have sex.
KnightofChrist Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 [quote name='The Little Way' post='1193121' date='Feb 12 2007, 11:53 PM'] But again, I don't see how she's disobeying God's law. There was no indication that the girl is having or intends to have sex. [/quote] She would be if she to the pills... right? I think thats the point.
Birgitta Noel Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1193132' date='Feb 12 2007, 11:03 PM'] She would be if she to the pills... right? I think thats the point. [/quote] no, the sin is a sin of contraception. One cannot contracept, even by taking the pill, if they are not having sex. There is nothing to contracept. Simply taking a pill that can be contraceptive is not a sin. Taking a pill that is contraceptive and having sex which then makes the pill a contraceptive is a sin.
Mr.Cat Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 Artificial birth control either physical or chemical is condemned by the Church and considered grave matter, thus can be mortal sin under proper conditions. It is wrongful for we are commanded to go out and multiply thus hindering this simple command makes it wrongful, not to mention all the other scriptural and tradition biases. In fact it was not until the mid nineteen hundreds (1900’s) that the Anglicans (first of any claiming to be Christian) said that it was permissible under “SOME” circumstances. Now it seems only Catholics hold true to the truth that artificial contraceptive is wrongful. [url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Birth_Control.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/Birth_Control.asp[/url] (really good article) [url="http://www.catholic.com/library/Contraception_and_Sterilization.asp"]http://www.catholic.com/library/Contracept...erilization.asp[/url] [url="http://www.scripturecatholic.com/contraception.html"]http://www.scripturecatholic.com/contraception.html[/url] If medicine is absolutely required that has a contraceptive affect it is understood that it be [u]permissible [/u] ([b][u]advise of a Priest should be sought[/u][/b]) but the person must refrain from sexual relations. Although since the person in question in this topic is under age and not married, then there should be no sexual relations at all. Easily said this appears to be the parents commanding the child to do something sinful which the child has no obligation what so ever to obey but rather to do the opposite.
Birgitta Noel Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 [quote name='Mr.CatholicCat' post='1193164' date='Feb 12 2007, 11:13 PM'] Easily said this appears to be the parents commanding the child to do something sinful which the child has no obligation what so ever to obey but rather to do the opposite. [/quote] Ok, once again, I do not understand why the Pham thinks that the parents are commanding her to do something sinful? Their command might be sinful (because of the dangers involved and their understanding (or lack of) of Church teaching), but the girl simply taking the pill is not committing any sin whatsoever unless she is having sex.
KnightofChrist Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 [quote name='The Little Way' post='1193140' date='Feb 13 2007, 12:06 AM'] no, the sin is a sin of contraception. One cannot contracept, even by taking the pill, if they are not having sex. There is nothing to contracept. Simply taking a pill that can be contraceptive is not a sin. Taking a pill that is contraceptive and having sex which then makes the pill a contraceptive is a sin. [/quote] Well maybe, but to put someone in jail for something they didn't do is also not a sin on part of the prisoner. Now, in somewhat the same sense it could be said the same is kinda true, the girl is being seen as a sinner, being forced against her will to take something she does not need. To take the pills would be to omit a lie. She has not sinned in fornication, but she is being accused of that, if she takes the pills, she will lose some sort of innocents. And I'm pretty sure the Church commends the use of "the pill." I don't believe it matters what the use is for... I could be wrong but I do not think so...
Birgitta Noel Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 [quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1193186' date='Feb 12 2007, 11:20 PM'] Well maybe, but to put someone in jail for something they didn't do is also not a sin on part of the prisoner. Now, in somewhat the same sense it could be said the same is kinda true, the girl is being seen as a sinner, being forced against her will to take something she does not need.[/quote] I'm not following your analogy here unless you're agreeing with me. [quote]To take the pills would be to omit a lie. She has not sinned in fornication, but she is being accused of that, if she takes the pills, she will lose some sort of innocents. And I'm pretty sure the Church commends the use of "the pill." I don't believe it matters what the use is for... I could be wrong but I do not think so... [/quote] The girl is not committing a lie as you suggest, she is not being accused of it either, the parents are assuming she'll do it. If she takes the pill she is not sinning, as she is not contracepting, on the other hand if she doesn't take the pill I believe we could also argue that she is not sinning by disobeying her parents. Yes, she may be loosing some of her innocence, that is possible, but that is not her sin, that is her parents sin perhaps for taking some of it from her (though that too is a different matter). The Church does not condemn (not commend) the use of the pill in general as you suggest. It surely recognizes the risks associated with its use etc, but there is not an overall condemnation of the pill. The Church recognizes that there may be legitimate uses of the pill for non-contraceptive reasons. Similarly the Church does not condemn the removal of a woman's ovaries or a man's testicles for non-contraceptive purposes, ie if they are cancerous. Does that make sense?
prose Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 I would recommend her getting the "Contraception: Why Not" Cd by Janet Smith. It is free to order online (just do a Google Search for the title". It is the most clear, concise explanation that I have ever heard about contraception.
KnightofChrist Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 (edited) [quote name='The Little Way' post='1193197' date='Feb 13 2007, 12:27 AM'] The girl is not committing a lie as you suggest, she is not being accused of it either, the parents are assuming she'll do it. If she takes the pill she is not sinning, as she is not contracepting, on the other hand if she doesn't take the pill I believe we could also argue that she is not sinning by disobeying her parents. [/quote] The girl would be partaking in the lie, taking the pill would be omitting that her mother is right, when that is not true. She should not be punished for something she is not guilty of, she should not "omit" that is admit (I hope) to something she is not guilty of. For everything else you pointed out IDK, maybe... But the reason she would be taking the pill is for contraception, sex or no sex. Her mother believes she needs the pill for contraception, she says no I do not I am not having sex, her mothers doesn't believe that, if the daughter folds takes the pills she admit to a lie. It would go back to the point of the innocent prisoner, all his got to do is to admit to the murder and he can have a chance go be set free. If he admits to the crime, he is saying he is guilty of the crime. The daughter is being accused of fornication, but she is innocent. If she takes the pill she is saying, admitting she is guilty. That is wrong, to be truthful to Herself, her mother and God she can not take the pill. Edited February 13, 2007 by KnightofChrist
Jaime Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 If she is being forced to take the pill by her mother, she is not sinning. One must use free will to sin. To commit a mortal sin, one must know its a sin and choose to do so freely. And I would humbly suggest that folks make use of the spellcheck feature here.
Birgitta Noel Posted February 13, 2007 Posted February 13, 2007 [quote name='hot stuff' post='1193232' date='Feb 13 2007, 12:10 AM'] And I would humbly suggest that folks make use of the spellcheck feature here. [/quote] Spell check wouldn't help, it's an issue of word choice. K of C I think you're trying to say "admit"?
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