Guest JeffCR07 Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Guys, a little charity from the both of you would be great. Thess, everyone understands that you were using the term "rapture" in a different way than a protestant theologian would, and your point that Catholics could appropriate the term in order to transfigure it into something that is theologically sound is a good one. This having been said, Mr. CatholicCat is also correct in pointing out that if we use the same word but mean different things, it is very easy for people involves in the conversation to equivocate between these two meanings. Such equivocation will hurt the discussion and may cause unnecessary confusion and complication. You both have valid points, but you are going about proving them in an uncharitable manner. Moreover, this argument between the two of you is not helping Catholic Anonymous with the 7th day adventist problem. I suggest that either the argument be dropped, or the two of you take a break from posting on this thread. I know how heated people can get in arguments, but you've got to be able to see when the argument stops being beneficial and when it needs to be put to rest. Your Brother In Christ, Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 Jeff, I am not at all heated and correcting someone's misunderstandings and false charges is not uncharitable. The term rapture as was pointed out above in the context of 2 thess 4:17 simply means caught up to meet christ. Bodily resurrection or assumption. I do not thing that is a problem in Catholic or Protestant theology. What is a problem is when pre and post trib is placed before the term. I belive Mr. Cat is in fact confusing the term rapture with pre-trib rapture. That is my point. My purpose is to try and find where Catholics and Protestants agree and then go from there rather. Others would have us just start speaking different languages and argue, broadbrushing all protestants in one way. I stand by my posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted February 15, 2007 Share Posted February 15, 2007 (edited) By the way, when has calling a spade a spade been a lack of charity. One might read Matt 23 where Jesus chastises the scribes and pharasees but good. Was that lack of charity? I do not get angry or sit and stew about people attacking my orthodoxy and my posts. I will however challenge them on their accusations. I am trying to give apologetic help here. If Mr. CC wants to have a theological discussion he can post something in debate to prove his proess in that area and I will be glad to engage as time allows. We can use proper terminology and dot our i's and cross our t's. This is apologetics however and I am trying to help the starter of the thread apply ecumenical principles to the discussion of Protestant theology on end times. I go at message boards with detachment. If people don't like what I say, oh well. God bless Edited February 15, 2007 by thessalonian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-I---Love Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 it's quite unfortunate that the real topic at hand has not be attended to. I wish someone would delete the above "not heated" posts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 Kindly get back to the topic!!!!! Posturing is not answering the question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thy Geekdom Come Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 [quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1192953' date='Feb 12 2007, 09:26 PM']* Christ's Kingdom is now and there will be no physical rapture (for once Catholic Answers disappointed me) * Tradition is of equal importance to the Bible. His refutation to my explanation was, "If Tradition was that important, why didn't it get written down and put in the Bible as well?"[/quote] Christ's Kingdom is actually both now and in the future. It has been initially established, but it being built up and will be complete at the Second Coming. There will be a physical rapture, in as much as we will be caught up with the Lord, but it will be at the Second Coming. It is not the "rapture" they speak of. The Latin word is rapiamur (we will be caught up), so it is technically fitting to call it a rapture, but it is not a sort of "everyone disappears and goes to be with the Lord and escapes the tribulation" kinda thing. It'll just be that at the end of time, Jesus Christ will come, judge us, and take the righteous to Himself. It should be noted that while "rapture" might be a loosely technically correct term, it's not wise to bring that up, because it only confuses the issue and does so unnecessarily. As for Tradition, his question is a logical fallacy. Tradition, by definition, doesn't need to be proven in the Scriptures. In other words, if Tradition is true, then something doesn't need to be in Scriptures to be true. It is illogical to ask for the Scriptural basis of something that by its nature is outside of Scripture. Regardless, there is a good article on it here: [url="http://catholic.com/library/Scripture_and_Tradition.asp"]http://catholic.com/library/Scripture_and_Tradition.asp[/url] God bless, Micah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted February 18, 2007 Share Posted February 18, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathoholic_anonymous Posted February 18, 2007 Author Share Posted February 18, 2007 [quote]Christ's Kingdom is actually both now and in the future. It has been initially established, but it being built up and will be complete at the Second Coming. There will be a physical rapture, in as much as we will be caught up with the Lord, but it will be at the Second Coming. It is not the "rapture" they speak of.[/quote] Thank you for that, Raphael. I see now that the term 'rapture' is linguistically correct for what Catholics believe, but I've always thought of it as 'bodily resurrection' - partly because I've been led by certain evangelicals to associate the whole concept of rapture with being snatched up [i]a la[/i] Elijah and vanishing into the skies while other people are left behind to suffer. Your information on our understanding of Christ's Kingdom also helps. God's plan for the world in that sense seems to reflect his plan for the individual - we are made in the image of God and are intrinsically good, but grace builds on that goodness as we grow in the faith. It all fits. I've been struggling to cope with the influx of Calvinistic theology that has been [url="http://www.srcf.ucam.org/ciccu/cross-examined/"]swamping the University[/url] as a result of this year's mission, and that has helped me to connect the purpose of the individual with the purpose of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmotherofpirl Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Because of the LACK OF CHARITY from people who should know better this thread is closed. If another mod wants to dissect the thread and remove the offensive posts, go for it, my computer keeps timing out. I apologize to the original poster, please open a new thread with an update on your conversations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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