Trojan War

[Resurrexi]

For the information of the voters, a just war is thus defined:

[quote]
[b]Summa Theologica, Secunda Secundæ Partis, Question 40, Article 1:
[/b]
In order for a war to be just, three things are necessary. First, the authority of the sovereign by whose command the war is to be waged. For it is not the business of a private individual to declare war, because he can seek for redress of his rights from the tribunal of his superior. Moreover it is not the business of a private individual to summon together the people, which has to be done in wartime. And as the care of the common weal is committed to those who are in authority, it is their business to watch over the common weal of the city, kingdom or province subject to them. And just as it is lawful for them to have recourse to the sword in defending that common weal against internal disturbances, when they punish evil-doers, according to the words of the Apostle (Romans 13:4): "He beareth not the sword in vain: for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath upon him that doth evil"; so too, it is their business to have recourse to the sword of war in defending the common weal against external enemies. Hence it is said to those who are in authority (Psalm 81:4): "Rescue the poor: and deliver the needy out of the hand of the sinner"; and for this reason Augustine says (Contra Faust. xxii, 75): "The natural order conducive to peace among mortals demands that the power to declare and counsel war should be in the hands of those who hold the supreme authority."

Secondly, a just cause is required, namely that those who are attacked, should be attacked because they deserve it on account of some fault. Wherefore Augustine says (QQ. in Hept., qu. x, super Jos.): "A just war is wont to be described as one that avenges wrongs, when a nation or state has to be punished, for refusing to make amends for the wrongs inflicted by its subjects, or to restore what it has seized unjustly."

Thirdly, it is necessary that the belligerents should have a rightful intention, so that they intend the advancement of good, or the avoidance of evil. Hence Augustine says (De Verb. Dom. [The words quoted are to be found not in St. Augustine's works, but Can. Apud. Caus. xxiii, qu. 1): "True religion looks upon as peaceful those wars that are waged not for motives of aggrandizement, or cruelty, but with the object of securing peace, of punishing evil-doers, and of uplifting the good." For it may happen that the war is declared by the legitimate authority, and for a just cause, and yet be rendered unlawful through a wicked intention. Hence Augustine says (Contra Faust. xxii, 74): "The passion for inflicting harm, the cruel thirst for vengeance, an unpacific and relentless spirit, the fever of revolt, the lust of power, and such like things, all these are rightly condemned in war."[/quote]

[catholicinsd]

Since the phorums were 'upgraded' I can't see the questions to the polls

Edited March 7, 2007 by catholicinsd

[Anomaly]

Thomas,
At what point did the Just War Theory become the Just War Rules?

Where is the Church document that adopted Tommy A's theory and established them as Dogma?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Personally, I think the Trojans should have just stormed their own castle, retrieved Helen, and given her back to the Greeks.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

USC would have crushed Michigan State last year. Go Irish!


But on a more serious note - do we really know anything about the Trojan War outside of The Illead? Was it intended to be a factual account?

[N/A Gone]

I thought it was when we give condom users wedgies.

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Anomaly' post='1209680' date='Mar 7 2007, 08:41 AM']Thomas,
At what point did the Just War Theory become the Just War Rules?

Where is the Church document that adopted Tommy A's theory and established them as Dogma?[/quote]
why do they have to be established as dogma to be valuable in interesting discussions such as these? SAINT Tommy A made a good argument for what a just war is which would be certainly relevent in application to a war in the Ancient World even if it might (not necessarily, but possible) need updating for a war in the modern world.

of course, the poetic story of Troy starts to feel sterile when we start looking at it from a moralizing perspective. first thing's first, both sides had in their consceince a beleif in the righteousness of their opinions and that the powers of the heavens were in their support.

however, Agammemnon, though he was a legitimate authority, should not have led so many men to their deaths for the sake of a private dispute. he may have been justified from the start, however, in a stealthy attempt to reclaim Helen.

despite the virtues and totally righteous human motivations of the men involved, overall the risk of life did not justify what was sacrificed to redress the wrong done.

[Didymus]

[quote name='thedude' post='1209790' date='Mar 7 2007, 11:59 AM']USC would have crushed Michigan State last year. Go Irish![/quote]

oh man! you had to bring up the heartache again of another year of IrishvsTrojan disappointment