kujo Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 In light of [url="http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Mar14/0,4670,MilitaryGays,00.html"]General Peter Pace's comments this week[/url], I think this is a valid question. I'm not asking about your opinion of homosexuality because, frankly, I'm sure that most of us rally around our Holy Mother Church's stance. I'm asking whether or not it is fair, in your opinion, to exclude them from defending our country.
FullTruth Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 Put them in the front ranks, and let them get killed off first. After all, they're not going to reproduce anyways. J/king - I'm not that cruel!
N/A Gone Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 Im just commenting so i will remeber later. Im a soldier
kujo Posted March 17, 2007 Author Posted March 17, 2007 [quote name='Revprodeji' post='1214810' date='Mar 17 2007, 01:03 AM']Im just commenting so i will remeber later. Im a soldier[/quote] I look forward to hearing your perspective. Thank you for your service.
kujo Posted March 17, 2007 Author Posted March 17, 2007 [quote name='FullTruth' post='1214808' date='Mar 17 2007, 01:01 AM']Put them in the front ranks, and let them get killed off first. After all, they're not going to reproduce anyways. J/king - I'm not that cruel![/quote] Come on, brother. Love thy neighbor...
FullTruth Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 [quote name='kujo' post='1214815' date='Mar 17 2007, 01:14 AM']Come on, brother. Love thy neighbor...[/quote] I know, it was a little over the top. I was just joking. With all the trials I go through, sometimes I need to just use the gift of stupidity and red neckness to just relax. When you have homosexual friends, like I do, you know homosexuals are [b]ordinary people who are in sin and need Jesus Christ[/b], just like [b]I am an ordinary person who is in sin and needs Jesus Christ[/b]. I dislike how many 'Christian' bigots will look at a good looking girl lustfully, and then say - At least I like girls. It always reminds me of those who say this is the least of sins.
kujo Posted March 17, 2007 Author Posted March 17, 2007 [quote name='FullTruth' post='1214829' date='Mar 17 2007, 01:39 AM']I know, it was a little over the top. I was just joking. With all the trials I go through, sometimes I need to just use the gift of stupidity and red neckness to just relax. When you have homosexual friends, like I do, you know homosexuals are [b]ordinary people who are in sin and need Jesus Christ[/b], just like [b]I am an ordinary person who is in sin and needs Jesus Christ[/b]. I dislike how many 'Christian' bigots will look at a good looking girl lustfully, and then say - At least I like girls. It always reminds me of those who say this is the least of sins.[/quote] I hear ya on the humor bro. Just wanna keep the bigotry down... We all have our own brand of sin to overcome. We all have our own cross to bear. But what the heck does it have to do with our ability to serve our country? What if they said that that people who took the Lord's name in vain couldn't serve?
FullTruth Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 [quote name='kujo' post='1214833' date='Mar 17 2007, 01:45 AM']I hear ya on the humor bro. Just wanna keep the bigotry down... We all have our own brand of sin to overcome. We all have our own cross to bear. But what the heck does it have to do with our ability to serve our country? What if they said that that people who took the Lord's name in vain couldn't serve?[/quote] My opinion is let them serve. I'm a Libertarian, which means I want very little government influence on our lives. What right does the military or government have to say a Homosexual can't serve? I find this really hypocritical, since most other militaries in the world, pre-Christian, and post-Christian, had homosexuals in them. If someone wants to live and die for their country, the government should give them that right, no matter what they do behind closed doors.
RezaMikhaeil Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 Being a former soldier, I don't have a problem with homosexuals in the military but its a difficult situation. The Military has a "dont ask don't tell" policy for homosexuality, but still it's difficult. I believe under the constititution of a free america, homosexuals have rights but its a difficult situation and a fine line between them throwing their sexuality in people's faces and just simply being like most non-gay people that don't flaunt their sexuality. Reza
Fixxxer Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 [quote name='FullTruth' post='1214808' date='Mar 16 2007, 11:01 PM']Put them in the front ranks, and let them get killed off first. After all, they're not going to reproduce anyways. J/king - I'm not that cruel![/quote] Larry the cable guy said to let women, men and gays train together. In the time of war send in the men first, then every 27 days or so send in a squad of pissed off women, then send in the gays to clean up and put curtains up everywhere.
FullTruth Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 [quote name='Fixxxer' post='1214849' date='Mar 17 2007, 03:12 AM']Larry the cable guy said to let women, men and gays train together. In the time of war send in the men first, then every 27 days or so send in a squad of pissed off women, then send in the gays to clean up and put curtains up everywhere. [/quote] Opps, I've taken a serious thread, and I've made a mockery of it!
desertwoman Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 I've been saying that for years the military should send in women during our level 5 times. Any man is aware of the warning signs and they know that no amount of ammo, napalm, or nuclear weapons can stop this threat, and the only means of winning is escape. But I do think that its alright for homosexuals to be allowed into the military. Right now, they really don't care if you are gay or not. But they would advise you not to tell anyone else that you are gay because they can not insure your safety from other troops.
thessalonian Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 First of all let's narrow the question a bit. One who is practicing homosexuality should not any more than one who is committing adultery, which the military does punish. One who struggles with SSA should be allowed to serve.
kujo Posted March 17, 2007 Author Posted March 17, 2007 [quote name='thessalonian' post='1214930' date='Mar 17 2007, 11:27 AM']First of all let's narrow the question a bit. One who is practicing homosexuality should not any more than one who is committing adultery, which the military does punish. One who struggles with SSA should be allowed to serve.[/quote] Playing devil's advocate here... To the homosexual, their relationship is not adulterous so long as it is monogamous. I would agree with the implication that homosexual relationships, in the moral and religious sense, are adulterous; however, I don't see how we can justify this in the secular world.
jeffpugh Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 I gave a null vote because I am Canadian. I just wanted to see the opinions of people I do not think it matters. Just as long as they don't go all rainbow on everyone and be 'proud' of their attraction. Also one thing that bugs me is how some people who defend SSA says 'my friend has it and they can't help being that way. They are born that way. It's not what they want'. I say it is a sort of rebellion but I get weird looks (maybe temptation is a better word). When I say that, some get out the tear jerking stories of how those with SSA have been abused and brutally killed over the centuries. I do not deny that. But I do not believe that they should be allowed to commit sinful acts. I have no offense against the person whatsoever. It's funny how atheistic our society is because once you mention SIN and the DEVIL and HELL people get all offended. Anywho if I were to vote I would say 'who cares?' because it is not really anyone's right to know (Except God).
thessalonian Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 (edited) [quote name='kujo' post='1214999' date='Mar 17 2007, 01:30 PM']Playing devil's advocate here... To the homosexual, their relationship is not adulterous so long as it is monogamous. I would agree with the implication that homosexual relationships, in the moral and religious sense, are adulterous; however, I don't see how we can justify this in the secular world.[/quote] Quite easily. God's laws are implanted on all men's hearts such that they have no excuse. Romans 2:14-16. I don't by this we need to separate secular people from religious people with a different set of laws. Further whether one thinks that running a car 100 miles an hour in to a brick wall won't kill them or not it matters little in the end. Mankind is hurting themselves and we need to warn them. Edited March 17, 2007 by thessalonian
kujo Posted March 17, 2007 Author Posted March 17, 2007 [quote name='thessalonian' post='1215170' date='Mar 17 2007, 07:43 PM']Quite easily. God's laws are implanted on all men's hearts such that they have no excuse. Romans 2:14-16. I don't by this we need to separate secular people from religious people with a different set of laws. Further whether one thinks that running a car 100 miles an hour in to a brick wall won't kill them or not it matters little in the end. Mankind is hurting themselves and we need to warn them.[/quote] I cannot disagree with anything you've said here. However, as it relates to serving one's country in this capacity, how does it apply? I thought we were enlisting a group of people to defend our country. I don't see how their religious/moral/political dispositions (no matter how immoral and wrong in the eyes of the Lord) have anything to do with their capacity or worthiness to be soldiers.
Maggyie Posted March 17, 2007 Posted March 17, 2007 I believe one of the main arguments against allowing "out" homosexuals to serve in the military is the potentially devastating effects on morale. Any "romance in the trenches" would cause serious problems (we see these problems when women are allowed to serve alongside men, as well). My brother is a Marine and he doesn't dislike homosexuals, but I'm not sure he would appreciate bunking and showering with someone who might find him attractive.
kujo Posted March 17, 2007 Author Posted March 17, 2007 [quote name='Maggie' post='1215174' date='Mar 17 2007, 07:50 PM']I believe one of the main arguments against allowing "out" homosexuals to serve in the military is the potentially devastating effects on morale. Any "romance in the trenches" would cause serious problems (we see these problems when women are allowed to serve alongside men, as well). My brother is a Marine and he doesn't dislike homosexuals, but I'm not sure he would appreciate bunking and showering with someone who might find him attractive.[/quote] I see some merit in this argument. I know that I would be uncomfortable as well. But I think that there are homosexuals who would scoff at the notion that they would be attracted to everyone or anyone they served with. It reminds me of a scene in American Wedding--Stifler goes to a gay bar and says that every gay man wants to get with him. And then a gay guy laughs and basically cuts him down to size. Just like every woman isn't attracted to every man, so to every gay man/woman isn't attracted to every man/woman.
jeffpugh Posted March 18, 2007 Posted March 18, 2007 Interesting point Kujo. It raises the question about the origin of SSA (ie, is it inherited or not)... any thoughts there?
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