Would You..."take -communion-" Elsewhere?

[Bruce S]

Why partake in Communion when you have no intention to be in communion with that Church.

THAT CHURCH?

My point exactly. We are part of Christ, not THAT CHURCH or THIS CHURCH, in communion with The Lord.

Partake and pray.

Won't send you to hell, won't even get you five more minutes in Purgagory.

[cmotherofpirl]

He who eats or drinks unworthily Bruce. If you get up and recieve communion and pretend unity where none exists - you are lying to God, giving scandal and committing a mortal sin, thus condemning yourself.

If you recieve Communion in a Catholic Church you are publically proclaiming your allegience to all the teachings of the Church. THe same goes if you do it anywhere else.

[Bruce S]

If you recieve Communion in a Catholic Church you are publically proclaiming your allegience to all the teachings of the Church. THe same goes if you do it anywhere else.

oh my goodness (don't blasphemy).

That is EXACTLY what Paul said about those who wanted to have "some of the Law" the circumcision party as it were.

He warned. If you WANT the LAW live UNDER the Law.

He then roundly condemned that line of thought, and said that we escaped the SLAVERY of the Law and ritual, why would one want to go there again?

Honestly, gang.

Please go read Romans, and put in the Word CATHOLIC in every instance where JEW is written, put in THE RULE IS everywhere the word LAW is mentioned.

The parallels are honesty frightening, and damning at the very same time.

We ESCAPED guys, we have GRACE NOW, we are NOT obligated to religious leadership to control our every move, action, and ritual.

Thank you Paul.

I PERSONALLY will even call YOU, Paul, a SAINT NOW, and I never like doing that to dead Christians, but to me, if there ARE Saints, he most certainly is the one that I would pray TO, to INTERCEDE for you Judaisers with Catholic minds.

Bless you.

[Brother Adam]

The law refers to Jewish law as given by moses to the Jewish people. Let's not forget Christ was a Jew who came to first, save the Jewish people and second, save the gentiles. You don't get to play by your own rules. Salvation is still for the Jewish nation, praise God though, he also allows all other people to partake in that salvation. Your use of "law" is out of context.

Closed communion is there for a reason and scriptures say if you drink it unworthily you drink it to your damnation. Communion has never been used to control, but to free. No one is going to twist your arm behind your back, force you into a Catholic Church and make you take communion.

Edited January 27, 2004 by Brother Adam

[dUSt]

He then roundly condemned that line of thought, and said that we escaped the SLAVERY of the Law and ritual...

Where did he say this? I don't remember him saying anything about "ritual". Did you add that word yourself?

[Norseman82]

He who eats or drinks unworthily Bruce.

BINGO!!!!!!

And the reference for that is 1 Cor. 11:27.

[Norseman82]

Question are all Christian brother and sister in Christ Jesus?

If the answer is yes, there is only one Christ and one body and one blood.

If you can't not share in the same body and blood you are not in the body of Christ and not be protected by its blood.

Then why don't you join the one church that was founded by Christ Himself and does not reject the Real Presence?

This is not a criticism, but an invitation to"come home".

[Aloysius]

"Take and eat"... "Do THIS in remembrance of Me..."

WHERE isn't specified.

It is a command to DO.

The words, players, the location...were NEVER meant to LIMIT.

Using communion to CONTROL men is a sin.

REMEMBERENCE in this context doesn't mean just to remember... this is a CMOM post:

THe problem is the translation. There is no word in English that is equivalent to the word Jesus and the Church uses: anamnesis.

here is a discussion we just had on another board. The writer is a theologian.

The definition of Anamnesis which you read is closer to the original

meaning than what we have in English - but it still does not cover the full

definition of the Greek word 'anamnesis'.

Jesus said (as expressed in English), "Do this 'in anamnesis' of me.

"Make ye my anamnesis" is UNDOUBTEDLY a better technical expresson of

the Greek than "Do this in (remembrance, memory, commemoration, memorial, or

memory) of me. All the words in (parens) have been used in various English

translations of Jesus' words in our English language Mass.

Various translators used those words because they corporately know there

is no English word which fully truly carries the sense of

the Greek word "anamnesis".

"Make you my anamnesis" is technically more accurate - but it would be

incomprehensible to most people.

Again, there is no precise English equivalent of anamnesis. WHY IS THAT

TRUE?

It is true because "commemoration", "remembrance", "memorial",

"memory" and all similar English words have a connotation of something which

is mentally remembered, without the thing itself being present in any other

way.

On the other hand (unlike our closesest English equivalents), in the

Scriptures 'anamnesis' (and its verbal form) means "recalling" or

"remembering" or "representing" before God a past event in THAT IS ACTUALLY

OPERATIVE IN ITS AFFECTS HERE AND NOW.

This is the actual sense of our English "commemoration" or "remembrance"

or "memorial" or "memory" which is used here when Our Lord says "Make you my

anamnesis".

It is not just a recalling of some past event.

While it IS also a "making present" of something which took place in the

past:

It is ALSO a reference to something which actually took place in the

past - but - whose affects are operatively also actually present in the here

and now. That is why it is referred to in several OT prophecies as a

"perpetual sacrifice" which will take place as a result of the arrival of

the Messiah.

But there is no way to clearly express in English the sense of the Greek

original.

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...indpost&p=23214

from like august... u see, if it's not truly making present something which took place in the past, it's a mockery of Jesus' command. and protestants don't believe it's actually making that present the way we do. :P

[Bruce S]

Then why don't you join the one church that was founded by Christ Himself and does not reject the Real Presence?

This is not a criticism, but an invitation to"come home".

I am "home."

Christianity is NOT a denomination, it is a belief SYSTEM, and a submission to JESUS and God, with the Holy Spirit as a change agent and comforter.

Everytime I watch EWTN, sing in a Pentecostal praise meeting, talk in tounges, go to a Messianic Jewish service, or a Bible study in Presbyterian church, I'm "home."

God and His son, Jesus, with the Holy Spirit wizzing all about is where HOME IS.

God doesn't reside in Rome, never did, and never will.

God resides in your heart.

[i'm starting to sound exactly like St. Paul today....with overtones of AbraHAN, pre circumcision time, ... must be the ephipany I had last nite ... odd night last night.]

Edited January 27, 2004 by Bruce S

[Aloysius]

:unsure: :rolleyes:

[KennC]

It sure sounds like they are different, then again, it depends on what sect of the Baptist Church you belong to. For instance, our church belongs to the GARBC- General Association of Regular Baptist Churches. There is also the American Baptist Church (Baptist in name only), The Fundamental Baptist Churches, the Primative Baptist Churches, and so on.

I believe closed communion is required of many churches, becuase the belief of what communion is differs. Since communion is still taken seriously in protestant churches, though lacking the Catholic understanding, protestant churches want to be sure they are in tune with scripture that declares if one takes communion unworthily, they take it to their damnation. Thus, it is part of being cautiuos. Most closed communion churches ask if you are not of that denomination you do not take communion, but usually don't come up and ask you before the service, if you do go up and take it, its on you.

Since communion is still taken seriously in protestant churches, though lacking the Catholic understanding, protestant churches want to be sure they are in tune with scripture that declares if one takes communion unworthily, they take it to their damnation.

Br Adam;

If the last supper is simly a remebrance of him, how can you possibly take communion unworthily. I've had Pastors ask we think on what Christ did for us on the cross while they were preparing the juice, but? It's just a simple meal where you take a few minutes to meditate on Christs Sacrifice .. or is the Protestant Church trying to walk both sides of the street at the same time. Trying to have it both ways, .. what just in case?

thanks

[Brother Adam]

It all depends on the church. not all chuches believe it is symbolic

[KennC]

It all depends on the church. not all chuches believe it is symbolic

Hi Br Adam;

thanks, the only outside Church I know of who feels this way is the Anglican High Church. Any others I don't know about?

... to add, ... do you know of any Baptist Churches who feels this is not symbolic?

thanks again.

Edited January 27, 2004 by KennC

[Bruce S]

My two cents...

If you want to UNDERSTAND the bread and wine, really UNDERSTAND it, you need to step outside of ALL of our yakking.

Go to the Passover Seder with a Messianic congregation.

It was a PASSOVER RITE, morphed into a sacrificial rite, a dinner too, sort of a combination Thanksgiving, memorial service, good/bad/happy/sad thing.

NONE of us give the proper weight to the JEWISH angle on this one, we want to take if from that time FOREWARDS, whereas a Passover dinner points to the past.

It was a MEAL...a real meal, like have a good dinner, drink some vino, and share family time too.

Jesus was NOT understood by those present at the meal nor did it really make sense to anyone AT the meal, the Apostles were grasping at what Jesus meant during the meal, washing of feet [ I think it should be done as often as we can, for us never, I wish we did that, you do, ,but it is on what .. a Thursday nite?]

Anyway, the way the Messianics do it, incorporates the meal and bread and wine as it most likely WAS, and keeps the tradition closer to reality.

The Catholic Church has gussied up the event to be a ritual, a never ending thing, like Jews sacrificing over and over, shedding blood daily, yet never getting total closure.

To me, I like the Messianic understanding, on the night of Passover the best.

But, hey, without that priest guy ....

Right?

[Brother Adam]

Hi Br Adam;

thanks, the only outside Church I know of who feels this way is the Anglican High Church. Any others I don't know about?

... to add, ... do you know of any Baptist Churches who feels this is not symbolic?

thanks again.

The Lutheran church, as one example, teaches that Christ is truly present in communion and believe it is a sacrament along with baptism. They don't believe in the physical change of teh elements though, only that Christ is "in, on, and under" the elements, if i recall correctly.

No Baptist Church teaches anything other than real presence. I personally believe in something that has been labeled as "Dynamic presence", which still allows me to take communion in the Baptist Church.

God Bless,

Bro. Adam

[KennC]

... a dinner too, sort of a combination Thanksgiving, memorial service, good/bad/happy/sad thing.

... how can you possibly, as a Christian, partake in this un-worthily.

[KennC]

No Baptist Church teaches anything other than real presence.

?? the Baptist Church teaches the "Real Presence" ?? In what way?

I personally believe in something that has been labeled as "Dynamic presence", which still allows me to take communion in the Baptist Church.

... I have never heard the term "Dynamic Presence", ... Baptists on other boards sure don't let on anything other than symbolic?

thanks for your help

[Brother Adam]

?? the Baptist Church teaches the "Real Presence" ?? In what way?

... I have never heard the term "Dynamic Presence", ... Baptists on other boards sure don't let on anything other than symbolic?

thanks for your help

*smacks forehead*

Sorry, slip of the keyboard. No baptist beleives in anything other than symbolic.

[KennC]

No baptist beleives in anything other than symbolic.

Well, ... ya had me going there for awhile, ... thinking, here I am at the dock when mabye I should have been at the train station and all the while they all slipped out on flight 343 for "Kansas". :rolling:

... so, as long as it doesn't take up too much of your time could you touch on the term "Dynamic Presence", thanks again.

[Paladin D]

Proud to be Catholic. :cool: