Why Is The Eucharist Needed To Apply The Cross?

[Budge]

[quote]"He died once and for all time"[/quote]

Ive never used that.

Jesus Christ is ALIVE and in heaven.

He aint dying no more.

Ive never heard an evangelical use that phrase though Im sure a watered down Emergent type very well could.

[Winchester]

Is the Eucharist a representation of the crucifixion or the Last Supper?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1229429' date='Apr 4 2007, 08:50 AM']Ive never used that.

Jesus Christ is ALIVE and in heaven.

He aint dying no more.

Ive never heard an evangelical use that phrase though Im sure a watered down Emergent type very well could.[/quote]
You've never heard of doing something "once and for all"? It means doing something completely so that it never happens again. It does not mean doing something througout all time.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Budge' post='1229429' date='Apr 4 2007, 08:50 AM']Ive never used that.

Jesus Christ is ALIVE and in heaven.

He aint dying no more.

Ive never heard an evangelical use that phrase though Im sure a watered down Emergent type very well could.[/quote]
No one is saying that he is.

Do you believe that Jesus' sacrifice effects redemption for you?

Do you believe that Jesus' death effects redemption for people who lived 1000 years ago?

The idea is that his one-time death paid the debt for all sin at any point in time in the earth. That it was effective for a person living in any point in history. For all time.

This is not a difficult distinction here, and you seem to be trying to twist our words into what you THINK we believe. Which is not what we believe.

[Budge]

[quote]s the Eucharist a representation of the crucifixion[/quote]

Crucifixition and fulfilment of Passover.

[img]http://www.paleotimes.org/images/matzo.jpg[/img]
[b]
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: [u]by whose stripes ye were healed.[/u][/b]

The Last Supper is symbolic of the CrOss and to be done for rememberance.

[Budge]

[quote]No one is saying that he is.

Do you believe that Jesus' sacrifice effects redemption for you?

Do you believe that Jesus' death effects redemption for people who lived 1000 years ago?

The idea is that his one-time death paid the debt for all sin at any point in time in the earth. That it was effective for a person living in any point in history. For all time.

This is not a difficult distinction here, and you seem to be trying to twist our words into what you THINK we believe. Which is not what we believe.[/quote]

So you seem to believe as scripture says...
[b]
HE DIETH NO MORE..[/b]

Some of the posters here have said otherwise.

In fact why would the time warping even have been an issue otherwise?

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1230040' date='Apr 4 2007, 05:18 PM']So you seem to believe as scripture says...
[b]
HE DIETH NO MORE..[/b]

Some of the posters here have said otherwise.

In fact why would the time warping even have been an issue otherwise?[/quote]
Budge, no person here claiming to know the faith has said otherwise.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Budge' post='1230040' date='Apr 4 2007, 05:18 PM']So you seem to believe as scripture says...
[b]
HE DIETH NO MORE..[/b]

Some of the posters here have said otherwise.

In fact why would the time warping even have been an issue otherwise?[/quote]
No no one has said otherwise.

YOU were the one who brought up the question of time:
[quote name='Budge' post='1228310' date='Apr 3 2007, 09:26 AM']Didnt I point out in the course of this conversation somewhere that at the Last Supper THEY COULDNT BE DRINKING OR EATING THE BODY OR BLOOD OF CHRIST because He had NOT gone to the cross yet?

If He had not gone to the cross yet, why would the apostles be sitting there ALREADY DRINKING HIS BLOOD?[/quote]
implying that Christ's sacrifice was not sufficient for the redemption of those born before his coming. Which is patently unbiblical. If the sacrifice of Christ is sufficient to cover their sins, then there must have been a connection between people who lived before the time of Christ and Christ, even though he had not come. Hence my conception of the arc, that time is curved around the sacrifice of Christ, with that at its center, touching every point. The arc conception helps ME to understand it, but you could equally say that the cross radiates out to every point in time.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]In fact why would the time warping even have been an issue otherwise?[/quote]

Because an event that happened in 33 AD would not be able to cover the sins of all those millions of people who existed prior to Christ's days on earth if time were strictly linear. God stands outside time. By logical extension, Calvary and the Resurrection are outside time as well. It's nothing to do with Jesus' death being [i]perpetual[/i], but with being [i]perpetuated[/i]. There is a fundamental difference and you don't have to be a great philosopher to recognise it.

[Budge]

[quote]It's nothing to do with Jesus' death being [b]perpetual,[/b] but with being [b]perpetuated.[/b][/quote]

Honestly where do you folks come up with these nonsensical sentences?
honestly, this one is one of the worse examples. That doesnt even make any sense.

[img]http://www.rares.org/images/Animated%20gifs/man_head_spinning_lg_wht.gif[/img]

[Budge]

[quote]If the sacrifice of Christ is sufficient to cover their sins, then there must have been a connection between people who lived before the time of Christ and Christ, even though he had not come. Hence my conception of the arc, that time is curved around the sacrifice of Christ, with that at its center, touching every point. The arc conception helps ME to understand it, but you could equally say that the cross radiates out to every point in time.[/quote]

Why would God need to change time, Christ exsisted as God and man within TIME, in a way this time changer stuff DENIES the INCARNATION.

Jesus said IT WAS FINISHED.

God does NOT operate like THIS GUY...

[img]http://www.collider.com/uploads/imageGallery/Quantum_Leap/quantum_leap_image__3_.jpg[/img]



[b]
10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ [u]once [for all][/u].[/b]

Edited April 5, 2007 by Budge

[Winchester]

[quote name='Budge' post='1230036' date='Apr 4 2007, 06:16 PM']Crucifixition and fulfilment of Passover.

[img]http://www.paleotimes.org/images/matzo.jpg[/img]
[b]
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: [u]by whose stripes ye were healed.[/u][/b]

The Last Supper is symbolic of the CrOss and to be done for rememberance.[/quote]
So when He says this is my body this is my blood, what does that mean?

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Budge' post='1230307' date='Apr 4 2007, 08:50 PM']Why would God need to change time, Christ exsisted as God and man within TIME, in a way this time changer stuff DENIES the INCARNATION.

Jesus said IT WAS FINISHED.

God does NOT operate like THIS GUY...

[img]http://www.collider.com/uploads/imageGallery/Quantum_Leap/quantum_leap_image__3_.jpg[/img]
[b]
10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ [u]once [for all][/u].[/b][/quote]
a) no one said God needed to change time

b) no one said Jesus didn't die once for all

If you're going to argue, argue what people are actually saying.

[Winchester]

That Scott Bakula sure is handsome!

[Sojourner]

yes, yes he is ...

[Budge]

[quote]If you're going to argue, argue what people are actually saying.[/quote]Come on with sentences like this, who really knows..I dont think half of you even KNOW what youre saying

[quote]It's nothing to do with Jesus' death being perpetual, but with being perpetuated.[/quote]

Like nailing jello to a wall...

[img]http://graeme.woaf.net/otherbits/jellypics/nailing_jelly_to_the_wall.jpg[/img]

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Budge' post='1230370' date='Apr 4 2007, 11:14 PM']Come on with sentences like this, who really knows..I dont think half of you even KNOW what youre saying
Like nailing jello to a wall...

[img]http://graeme.woaf.net/otherbits/jellypics/nailing_jelly_to_the_wall.jpg[/img][/quote]

Now we are getting somewhere. Budge has broken down her pride by admitting she has no idea what is said. She has stopped pretending to know. We can help you understand our point of view, then you can refute. k? :)

[Budge]

[quote]It's nothing to do with Jesus' death being perpetual, but with being perpetuated.[/quote]

Your point of view is muddled confusion.

And Satan is the author of it.

Perpetual...

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
per·pet·u·al /pərˈpɛtʃuəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[per-pech-oo-uhl] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. [b]continuing or enduring forever; everlasting.[/b]
2. lasting an indefinitely long time: perpetual snow.
3. continuing or continued without intermission or interruption; ceaseless: a perpetual stream of visitors all day.
4. blooming almost continuously throughout the season or the year.
–noun
5. a hybrid rose that is perpetual.
6. a perennial plant.
[Origin: 1300–50; late ME perp


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
per·pet·u·ate /pərˈpɛtʃuˌeɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[per-pech-oo-eyt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object), -at·ed, -at·ing.
1. [b]to make perpetual.[/b]
2. to preserve from extinction or oblivion: to perpetuate one's name.
[Origin: 1520–30; < L perpetuātus (ptp. of perpetuāre, deriv. of perpetuus uninterrupted). See perpetual, -ate1]


As I said half of you dont even know what you are saying. For this one, it probably was ripped off some mumbo jumbo site about the Eucharist.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

Budge, why is it that you cite dictionaries all the time, but never bother to look at the other meanings of the word listed? No one said that the sacrifice is extended for all time. What we said is that others through all time may be able to share in it. "Perpetuated" is a fitting word because those in all times are able to share in it, even though it happened once and is over. If you look up the Latin, it can also mean "general" or "universal." Thus, perpetual in the sense we use it means that the universal Church, through all time, is able to experience the one time event. I already made a post to this effect. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you've answered it yet.

[Apotheoun]

The Last Supper anticipated the power of the Cross, while the Eucharistic liturgy is its perpetual memorial ([font="Symbol"]anamnesiV[/font]).