The Problem With Yoga

[Phoenix Reborn]

I've got two older brothers that're blackbelts in Tae Kwon Do...

Edited April 4, 2007 by Phoenix Reborn

[xTrishaxLynnx]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' post='1229711' date='Apr 4 2007, 01:38 PM']Is Pilates different from yoga? Seriously, I don't know a lot about it.[/quote]

I was going to ask the same thing. Do you think pilates would have any of these "unintended consequences?" ...because I really like pilates.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='scardella' post='1229593' date='Apr 4 2007, 11:44 AM']<serious comment>I think Al is saying its analogous to ouija boards in opening yourself up to unintended consequenses.</serious comment>[/quote]
Yeah, I get Al's point.

But I'd argue that the actions of yoga are more analagous to the ax situation I mentioned earlier than to ouija. When you see someone holding a plastic thingamabob over a board with letters, there aren't a whole lot of ways that can be intended aside from being open to the occult. But the poses involved with yoga can be performed independently from the meaning assigned them by Hindus. There needs to be a distinction made between the intent and the act. There are legitimate health benefits (both physical and mental) that stem from going through a range of yoga poses over a period of time. There's no legitimate benefit (that I can conceive of) relating to messing around with a ouija board.

[Mateo el Feo]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' post='1229634' date='Apr 4 2007, 02:02 PM']ah wrong.

Tang Soo Do is Korean karate. Ask Chuck Norris.

It is NOT Tae Kwon Do or Moo Duk Kwan Taekwondo .[/quote]I think you forget the <double nerd alert> tags.

[Tony]

I hope it's not wrong to just simply take a beep breath.. or I am in trouble

[JesusFreak84]

If we're going to say it's OK to divorce the religious aspect of yoga from the physical, then I don't want to hear anyone crying "sacralige!" if you see someone praying a Rosary to "improve finger circulation" or some junk like that.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Budge' post='1229424' date='Apr 4 2007, 08:40 AM']Aloy you may be sitting alone on this one.

I cant tell you how many times Ive posted against yoga and even karate {Tai Chai etc} with dozens of outraged Catholics who probably take classes in both.

Better be careful, they may think you are not OPEN enough and ACCEPTING of other religions.[/quote]

He aint alone sister.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1230092' date='Apr 4 2007, 08:19 PM']He aint alone sister. [/quote]

I'm pretty wary about this one also. Goona keep my eye on this convo for a bit...

Edited April 5, 2007 by Sacred Music Man

[hoosieranna]

[quote name='Budge' post='1229424' date='Apr 4 2007, 08:40 AM']OPEN enough and ACCEPTING of other religions.[/quote]
She put those two words together?

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Mateo el Feo' post='1229844' date='Apr 4 2007, 03:48 PM']I think you forget the <double nerd alert> tags. [/quote]
I just like to see the facts straight.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='JesusFreak84' post='1230082' date='Apr 4 2007, 06:05 PM']If we're going to say it's OK to divorce the religious aspect of yoga from the physical, then I don't want to hear anyone crying "sacralige!" if you see someone praying a Rosary to "improve finger circulation" or some junk like that. [/quote]
I would think a rosary would fall into the same general idea as a ouija board -- the actions are so closely identified with the intent that it is difficult or impossible to divide them. Why else would you be messing with a ouija board than if you are open to the idea that "it works"? Why else would you be fingering rosary beads other than if you were praying rosary beads?

But to say that I could only be doing yoga poses if I was engaging in or open to Hindu worship is a false statement. The identification, while still present, is not as strong, and the actions are open to interpretation.

[quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1230168' date='Apr 4 2007, 07:02 PM']I'm pretty weary about this one also. Goona keep my eye on this convo for a bit...[/quote]
I assume you mean "wary" as in "cautious" rather than "weary" which means "tired."

[KnightofChrist]

I found this once before and saved it as file, sorry don't remember were I found it... But Rome has spoken, Yoga is dangerous, better to avoid it.

VATICAN: CHANTING 'OMMMM' MAY CAUSE 'MORAL DEVIATIONS'

The Vatican, in a letter approved by Pope John Paul II, warned Christians Thursday against spiritual dangers deriving from Eastern methods of contemplative meditation used in yoga and Zen Buddhism.

It said the symbolism and body postures in such meditation ''can even become an idol and thus an obstacle to the raising up of the spirit of God.''

It warned that to give ''a symbolic significance typical of the mystical experience'' to sensations of well-being from meditation can lead to ''a kind of mental schizophrenia which could also lead to psychic disturbance and, at times, to moral deviations.''

The warnings were contained in a 25-page paper, titled ''Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on Some Aspects of Christian Meditation,'' issued by the Vatican Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith with the full approval of the pope.

The letter analyzed the history and significance of Christian prayer and stressed the need to stick by its established methods.

''Many Christians today have a keen desire to learn how to experience a deeper and authentic prayer life despite the not inconsiderable difficulties which modern culture places in the way of the need for silence, recollection and meditation,'' the document said.

''The interest which in recent years has been awakened also among some Christians by forms of meditation associated with some Eastern religions and their particular methods of prayer is a significant sign of this need for spiritual recollection and a deep contact with the divine mystery,'' it said.

But while conceding Eastern methods of contemplative meditation have some benefit for those who practice it, the document warned against attaching too much importance to its symbolism.

''The Eastern masters themselves have noted that not everyone is equally suited to make use of this symbolism, since not everybody is able to pass from the material sign to the spiritual reality that is being sought,'' the letter to the bishops said.

''Understood in an inadequate and incorrect way, the symbolism can even become an idol, and thus an obstacle to the raising up of the spirit of God,'' it said.

''To live out in one's prayer the full awareness of one's body as a symbol is even more difficult: it can degenerate into a cult of the body and can lead surreptitiously to considering all body sensations as spiritual experiences.

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1230178' date='Apr 4 2007, 09:11 PM']I assume you mean "wary" as in "cautious" rather than "weary" which means "tired."[/quote]

Oops... my bad. I get into habits of adding extra letters (though it's not my intention).

Correction taken

[Azriel]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' post='1230229' date='Apr 4 2007, 07:36 PM']I found this once before and saved it as file, sorry don't remember were I found it... But Rome has spoken, Yoga is dangerous, better to avoid it.

VATICAN: CHANTING 'OMMMM' MAY CAUSE 'MORAL DEVIATIONS'

The Vatican, in a letter approved by Pope John Paul II, warned Christians Thursday against spiritual dangers deriving from Eastern methods of contemplative meditation used in yoga and Zen Buddhism.

It said the symbolism and body postures in such meditation ''can even become an idol and thus an obstacle to the raising up of the spirit of God.''

It warned that to give ''a symbolic significance typical of the mystical experience'' to sensations of well-being from meditation can lead to ''a kind of mental schizophrenia which could also lead to psychic disturbance and, at times, to moral deviations.''

The warnings were contained in a 25-page paper, titled ''Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on Some Aspects of Christian Meditation,'' issued by the Vatican Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith with the full approval of the pope.

The letter analyzed the history and significance of Christian prayer and stressed the need to stick by its established methods.

''Many Christians today have a keen desire to learn how to experience a deeper and authentic prayer life despite the not inconsiderable difficulties which modern culture places in the way of the need for silence, recollection and meditation,'' the document said.

''The interest which in recent years has been awakened also among some Christians by forms of meditation associated with some Eastern religions and their particular methods of prayer is a significant sign of this need for spiritual recollection and a deep contact with the divine mystery,'' it said.

But while conceding Eastern methods of contemplative meditation have some benefit for those who practice it, the document warned against attaching too much importance to its symbolism.

''The Eastern masters themselves have noted that not everyone is equally suited to make use of this symbolism, since not everybody is able to pass from the material sign to the spiritual reality that is being sought,'' the letter to the bishops said.

''Understood in an inadequate and incorrect way, the symbolism can even become an idol, and thus an obstacle to the raising up of the spirit of God,'' it said.

''To live out in one's prayer the full awareness of one's body as a symbol is even more difficult: it can degenerate into a cult of the body and can lead surreptitiously to considering all body sensations as spiritual experiences.[/quote]

But this is talking about contemplative meditation - not doing physical moves commonly associated with yoga. If I remove any of the meditation parts, concoct a series of positions, and label it something else ... say .... "Stuff my body doesn't like but is good for it" is it still wrong?

I'm agreeing with Terra on this.

[Farsight one]

I'll just be blunt. I see a definite correlation between this topic and the old "cmom's avatar is occult" one. Just as the snake can be used for the wrong purpose, yet it isn't innately wrong, yoga CAN be used for the wrong purpose, but it isn't innately wrong either.

And a question - since someone mentioned using the rosary for finger exercizes and not for prayer - would anyone be seriously offended if that happened?

[JesusFreak84]

[quote]And a question - since someone mentioned using the rosary for finger exercizes and not for prayer - would anyone be seriously offended if that happened?[/quote]

I'd be offended.