Bible Prohibition Against Endless Genealogies

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Budge' post='1244223' date='Apr 15 2007, 11:51 AM']I know you folks love to deny everything that scripture says.

It is a listing by the generations even if the ties are not biological.

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Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus - Cite This Source
Main Entry: genealogy
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: family tree
Synonyms: ancestry, blood line, derivation, [b]descent[/b], extraction, generation, genetics, heredity, history, [b]line, lineage,[/b] parentage, pedigree, progeniture, stemma, stirps, stock, strain
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.3.1)
Copyright © 2007 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.[/b][/quote]

Ah line and lineage IS biological. Sort of like listing the kings of France.
Been doing a family tree for about 25 years so I kind of know that one.
Listing the popes is like listing the presidents of the US.
Big difference.

[Budge]

[quote] Listing the popes is like listing the presidents of the US.
Big difference.[/quote]You all give straining at gnats a new name.

I notice everytime I point something out, you quibble and say it doesnt really mean that.

I wonder how some of you get through life because there is always an OUT clause for everything and meanings are so fluid as to be nonexistant.

Some sentences I got off the internet, to show the word lineage is used regarding Popes over and over.


. [quote]Papal [b]lineage[/b] table, and brief accounts of the pontificates of every bishop of Rome from St. Peter the Apostle to the present.[/quote]
[quote]
The EPISCOPAL [b]LINEAGE[/b]

of

HIS HOLINESS

POPE BENEDICT XVI[/quote]

[quote]
[b]Episcopal Lineage [/b]/ Apostolic Succession
The "Episcopal[b] Lineage[/b]" or "Apostolic Succession" is simply a list tracing back a bishop's principal consecrator and then that bishop's principal consecrator, etc. This information is not always listed - most often because I simply have not had the time to add the information (or have not yet discovered it). The lineage, in theory, should be traceable back to one of the apostles.[/quote]

Edited April 15, 2007 by Budge

[cmotherofpirl]

Lineage means line of descent, but mostly it is used it terms of biological family.
THats why I can say I am of Irish lineage.


However it really doesn't matter, Jesus's lineage was clearly traced in the New Testament, unless you are going to claim the Scriptures were wrong as well.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]the NT was written well before your church existed.

Are you going to infer to me like another poster here that the apostles really didnt write the NT?[/quote]

Budge, you have been told time and time again that Catholics believe the NT to be written by the apostles. I know, because I was one of the people who told you.

You have also been told time and time again that there was a proliferation of other texts in use during the early days of the Church. The 'Gospel' of Peter, for example, and the 'Gospel' of Nicodemus. It was a council of Catholic bishops who sat down, prayed for the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and selected the books that were to be placed in the final and authoritative canon. One of them was your old friend, Constantine. That council was held at Nicea. To deny this is to deny basic history.

As for the apostles themselves, they were Catholic to the core.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1244223' date='Apr 15 2007, 09:51 AM']I know you folks love to deny everything that scripture says.[/quote]
No, only your interpretations of Scripture.

[toledo_jesus]

[quote name='Budge' post='1243112' date='Apr 14 2007, 06:16 PM']Prohibition Against Endless Genealogies

1Ti 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and [b]endless genealogies[/b], which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: [so do].

And WHO, pray tell, LOVES those lists of Papal Geneologies to prove they are united back to Peter?

[url="http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm"]LIST HERE[/url][/quote]
this is particularly stupid of you Budge. What was one of the main ways the authors of the Gospels sought to give Jesus legitimacy? By tracing his lineage back to David. Just stop trying, you lose forever.

[N/A Gone]

[quote name='Budge' post='1244220' date='Apr 15 2007, 10:49 AM']the NT was written well before your church existed.

Are you going to infer to me like another poster here that the apostles really didnt write the NT?[/quote]

Isnt that a catch 22? If the apostles found the church then the church started with the apostles, yet the apostles, or their followeres wrote the scriptures under the authority of the apostles. The church gives authority to the scripture. There is no NT without the church.

[Budge]

The genealogies in the BIble are true...

others like your list of Popes have been amended and changed over and over.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

[quote]The genealogies in the BIble are true...

others like your list of Popes have been amended and changed over and over.[/quote]

The fact that something has been amended doesn't make it any less true, as I have already pointed out. My papers on theoretical linguistics have been amended over and over again as I discovered new information, but now I am confident that they are watertight. It's the same with numerous other things in the life - the first thing that springs to mind is Mendeleyev's periodic table of the elements. When he began work much of the table was blank. He was laughed at and criticised by other chemists for indulging in speculation. As we now know, his table was near-perfect. It did require a few minor corrections, but that doesn't detract from the truth of the original idea or the validity of his theories.

[kujo]

So wait wait wait.

Budge, are you telling me that creating lists of succession is evil based on that verse?

Reminds me of something a priest once told me: "You can scour the Bible and find justification for pretty much anything you will ever say. All you need is a lot of time and ignorance of any sort of context."

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Budge' post='1244846' date='Apr 15 2007, 06:44 PM']The genealogies in the BIble are true...

others like your list of Popes have been amended and changed over and over.[/quote]
So you no longer think it's the fact that it's a genealogy that makes it wrong, you're against the fact that it's been edited, is that it?

Well, revisions of history happen everyday. I don't think that if we found out tomorrow that George Washington was never sworn in as president, that would change the fact that the US has a presidency.

[thessalonian]

[quote name='Budge' post='1244220' date='Apr 15 2007, 10:49 AM']the NT was written well before your church existed.

Are you going to infer to me like another poster here that the apostles really didnt write the NT?[/quote]

No, simply that the Apostles were Catholic, i.e. you are wrong. By the way, I suspect you take those words about the Apostles not writing the scriptures out of context and perhaps from a thread I wrote. In fact less than half of the Apostles did write anything in the New Testament. That is the context. Mark and Luke were not apostles.

[Winchester]

Bump.

[SJP]

[quote name='Budge' post='1244220' date='Apr 15 2007, 11:49 AM']the NT was written well before your church existed.

Are you going to infer to me like another poster here that the apostles really didnt write the NT?[/quote]


Budge can you please provide evidence for this claim?

Are you claiming that every Christian from the time of Christ had a complete Bible, bound with a table of contents and all? Please elaborate.

[Budge]

when do you believe the books of the NT were finished?

[Budge]

when do you believe the books of the NT were finished?

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Budge' post='1251392' date='Apr 21 2007, 08:10 AM']when do you believe the books of the NT were finished?[/quote]

Budge, why don't you just answer the question...

[SJP]

The NT books were composed throughout the first century.

[Budge]

I need you to answer that one first to continue.

Because my conjecture is that the NT books were finished well before 100AD.

{even likely before the 70 ad fall of Jerusalem since it is not mentioned except as prophecy}

[SJP]

Well, even if I were to accept your conjecture that the NT was completed before 70 ad, that still leaves a span of some 37 years in which the NT was being authored.

The point remains clear that during this period of time, Christians did not have the Bible as we know it today. It would have been simply impossible to read a letter from Paul before it was ever authored.

Now, can you please answer my original question, can you please provide evidence for your claim that the NT was written well before the Church existed? Are you claiming that every Christian from the time of Christ had a complete Bible, bound with a table of contents and all?