Internet Confessions

[ReinnieR]

The Code of Canon Law says:

Can. 960 Individual and integral confession and absolution constitute the sole ordinary means by which a member of the faithful who is conscious of grave sin is reconciled with God and with the Church. Physical or moral impossibility alone excuses from such confession, in which case reconciliation may be attained by other means also.

This canon repeats the rule of Sacramentum Paenitentiae from the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith about the need for individual and complete confession being the only ordinary means of confession.

The sacraments are human meeting points with the sacred and hence the church has answered in the negative the points that you have raised. It is a face to face encounter with the Divine grace.

Pope John Paul II put it this way

32. Following the suggestions of the Second Vatican Council, the Ordo Paenitentiae provided three rites which, while always keeping intact the essential elements, make it possible to adapt the celebration of the sacrament of penance to particular pastoral circumstances.

The first form-reconciliation of individual penitents is the only normal and ordinary way of celebrating the sacrament, and it cannot and must not be allowed to fall into disuse or be neglected. The second form-reconciliation of a number of penitents with individual confession and absolution-even though in the preparatory acts it helps to give greater emphasis to the community aspects of the sacrament, is the same as the first form in the culminating sacramental act, namely individual confession and individual absolution of sins. It can thus be regarded as equal to the first form as regards the normality of the rite. The third form however- reconciliation of a number of penitents with general confession and absolution-is exceptional in character. It is therefore not left to free choice but is regulated by a special discipline.

The first form makes possible a highlighting of the more personal- and essential-aspects which are included in the penitential process. The dialogue between penitent and confessor, the sum of the elements used (the biblical texts, the choice of the forms of "satisfaction," etc.), make the sacramental celebration correspond more closely to the concrete situation of the penitent. The value of these elements are perceived when one considers the different reasons that bring a Christian to sacramental penance: a need for personal reconciliation and readmission to friendship with God by regaining the grace lost by sin; a need to check one's spiritual progress and sometimes a need for a more accurate discernment of one's vocation; on many other occasions a need and a desire to escape from a state of spiritual apathy and religious crisis. Thanks then to its individual character, the first form of celebration makes it possible to link the sacrament of penance with something which is different but readily linked with it: I am referring to spiritual direction. So it is certainly true that personal decision and commitment are clearly signified and promoted in this first form.

From: POST-SYNODAL
APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION
RECONCILIATION AND PENANCE
OF JOHN PAUL II
TO THE BISHOPS
CLERGY AND FAITHFUL
ON RECONCILIATION AND PENANCE
IN THE MISSION OF THE CHURCH TODAY

[ReinnieR]

[quote name='thedude' post='1256522' date='Apr 25 2007, 09:47 PM']Everyone look at canon 960:
[url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3F.HTM"]http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3F.HTM[/url]

What are the other means?[/quote]
oops i didn't see that you already quoted that.

[Church Punk]

they have internet confession?

[Sojourner]

no

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='kateri05' post='1255879' date='Apr 25 2007, 12:13 AM']"laying on of hands" is part of the sacrament. no good on the phone/internet/etc [/quote]

Laying of hands is not part of the sacrament. [i]Extending hands over[/i] the penitent while pronouncing the formula of absolution is all that is necessary (Rite of Penance 19).

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1257157' date='Apr 26 2007, 05:22 PM']Laying of hands is not part of the sacrament. [i]Extending hands over[/i] the penitent while pronouncing the formula of absolution is all that is necessary (Rite of Penance 19).[/quote]

Priests never extend their hands. There is a screen dividing the penitent and the priest unless you are going to confession in a Medieval church which was built before the invention of the confessional.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1258319' date='Apr 27 2007, 06:59 PM']Priests never extend their hands. There is a screen dividing the penitent and the priest unless you are going to confession in a Medieval church which was built before the invention of the confessional.[/quote]
Or unless you go to a church built in the last 45 or so years... and you know it.
You've never heard of anyone making a face to face confession? Someone calling for an appointment to meet with Fr. in his office? Going to confession with a spiritual director?

[the Apologist]

no- i used to joke with a priest about this sort of thing... like, what if i just fax you my sins? or mail them in? we could make repentance post cards that go only through the Vatican mail or something "official" like that...

No, this can't be. The problem i see is in the seal of confession and the grace of God flowing through the priest... it's like seeing Mass on T.V. on Sunday instead of going to Mass in person... it's just not the same. It is is only "ok" to "attend" Mass on t.v. if you are very ill and unable to attend (and for that matter you wouldn't even need to see it on t.v. because your illness would free you from the Sunday obligation) But is never the same as attending Mass in person.

And anyway, confession is about the person coming to God, through the priest to confess remorse for his/her sins and make a pledge of repentance... now if it was though the internet, the closest you could get to that which is experienced in the confessional is in a chat room because at least it is done in real time. If it were by email, you would write it in your sins and repentance of them, but then you wouldn't receive the forgiveness until later, when you get the response. But in any case, as with the chat rooms, nothing is same as when you are talking to another in person, even if it is through a screen for anonimity sake. And as was stated already, the priest needs to determine if the person is really repentant, something impossible to really determine in an email or chat room because someone can write something that are the right words with the wrong disposition.

But besides all of this, there is really no excuse to not go to a priest unless you are in a country where the Church is persecuted and there are very few priests. And even then God knows your desire to confess to a priest and if you made a "perfect act of contrition" (sorry for your sins because the offended God- not just because of the fear of Hell-which is very hard to determine) then you are forgiven but you still need to confess your sins to a priest the next chance you get.

Anyway, i'm glad you mentioned it because i'm sure many people think of this.

Heck, i may do a song about this topic some day!
www.catholic-rap.com

[Pontifite 7 of 10]

I was just wondering because a while ago I was desperate, but I'm good now, and Its not like I've done it.

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1258319' date='Apr 27 2007, 06:59 PM']Priests never extend their hands. There is a screen dividing the penitent and the priest unless you are going to confession in a Medieval church which was built before the invention of the confessional.[/quote]

Its in the rite...#46.

I make sure all the priests that I have celebrate penance at the parish I work for extend their hands.

Most people opt for a face-to-face confession at my parish, but even with a screen, the rite calls for extension of hands.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1258357' date='Apr 28 2007, 12:31 AM']Or unless you go to a church built in the last 45 or so years... and you know it.
You've never heard of anyone making a face to face confession? Someone calling for an appointment to meet with Fr. in his office? Going to confession with a spiritual director?[/quote]

I only do face to face, because for me, it ensures that I hide nothing. I mean, the screen is there for those who want it, I just pull it aside.

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1259499' date='Apr 29 2007, 07:08 AM']Its in the rite...#46.

I make sure all the priests that I have celebrate penance at the parish I work for extend their hands.

Most people opt for a face-to-face confession at my parish, but even with a screen, the rite calls for extension of hands.[/quote]

Whether or not hands are supposed to be extended, it is not the necessary matter nor is it the necessary form of the Sacrament.

[quote][b]The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Part II:[/b]
THE MATTER



There is nothing that should be better known to the faithful than the matter of this Sacrament; hence they should be taught that Penance differs from the other Sacraments in this, that while the matter of the other Sacraments is some thing, whether natural or artificial, the matter, as it were, of the Sacrament of Penance is the acts of the penitent, - namely, contrition, confession and satisfaction, - as has been declared by the Council of Trent. Now, inasmuch as these acts are by divine institution required on the part of the penitent for the integrity of the Sacrament, and for the full and perfect remission of sin, they are called parts of Penance. It is not because they are not the real matter that they are called by the Council the matter as it were,22 but because they are not of that sort of matter which is applied externally, such, for instance, as water in Baptism and chrism in Confirmation.

As regards the opinion of some who hold that sins themselves are the matter of this Sacrament, it will be found, when carefully examined, that it does not really differ from the explanation already given. Thus we say that wood which is consumed by fire is the matter of fire. In the same way, sins which are destroyed by Penance may properly be called the matter of Penance.*





THE FORM OF PENANCE



Pastors should not neglect to explain the form of the Sacrament of Penance. A knowledge of it will excite the faithful to receive the grace of this Sacrament with the greatest possible devotion. Now the form is: I absolve thee, as may be inferred not only from the words, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth shall be bound also in heaven,23 but also from the teaching of Christ our Lord, handed down to us by the Apostles.

Moreover, since the Sacraments signify what they effect, the words, I absolve thee, signify that remission of sin is effected by the administration of this Sacrament; and hence it is plain that such is the perfect form of the Sacrament. For sins are, so to say, the chains by which the soul is bound, and from which it is freed by the Sacrament of Penance. And none the less truly does the priest pronounce the form over the penitent who, through perfect contrition, accompanied by the desire of confession, has already obtained remission of his sins from God.

Several prayers are added, not that they are necessary to the form, but in order to remove every obstacle that can impede the force and efficacy of the Sacrament owing to the fault of him to whom it is administered.

How thankful, then, should not sinners be to God for having bestowed such ample power on the priests of His Church! Unlike the priests of the Old Law who merely declared the leper cleansed from his leprosy,24 the power now given to the priests of the New Law is not limited to declaring the sinner absolved from his sins, but, as a minister of God, he truly absolves from sin. This is an effect of which God Himself, the author and source of grace and justice, is the principal cause.*
[url="http://catecheticsonline.com/Trent2.php"]http://catecheticsonline.com/Trent2.php[/url][/quote]

[Aloysius]

I do believe they extended their hand even in the old rite, and when they said "Absolvo te in nomine Patri et Filii et Spiritui Sancto" they made the sign of the cross as at a blessing.

Do not look for discord where there needn't be any, STM. sheesh.

[carrdero]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1255884' date='Apr 25 2007, 12:26 AM']just to add a dynamic to this debate:

can sins be confessed over such a mode of communication, and then absolved in person? for instance, say some brillian priest came up with the idea of making confession more accessable and offered the oppurtunity of people emailing them a list of their sins; then advice is emailed as needed and at a specific time they come to receive absolution.

it may open itself to abuses and make it unwise in some ways, but it would seem to me that such a system would make for a valid sacrament.[/quote]
I am going to have to agree with Aloysius on this. As long as the practicing priest had the functioning keyboard letter keys to spell
“s-a-y t-h-r-e-e O-u-r F-a-t-h-e-r-s a-n-d t-w-o H-a-i-l M-a-r-y-s”
then I don’t see what the problem is.

[Aloysius]

uhh... I don't agree with you, though. lol, I was just probing into the nature of the sacrament; but no, at the very least the Absolution must be given in person; at the most, the confession of sins itself as well (I lean more towards the latter, but just wanted to add a dynamic of interest here)

[carrdero]

[quote name='Aloysius' post='1260405' date='Apr 30 2007, 01:00 AM']uhh... I don't agree with you, though. lol, I was just probing into the nature of the sacrament; but no, at the very least the Absolution must be given in person; at the most, the confession of sins itself as well (I lean more towards the latter, but just wanted to add a dynamic of interest here)[/quote]
my apologies, sorry about the misunderstanding

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1260215' date='Apr 29 2007, 11:21 PM']Whether or not hands are supposed to be extended, it is not the necessary matter nor is it the necessary form of the Sacrament.[/quote]

I never said it was....I was just pointing out that it is called for in the rite (are you saying we can change the rites and omit what we please? how liberal....) and correcting someone who said laying of hands was necessary form for absolution.

Saying you can omit extension of hands because it is not a form/matter issue is like saying you can omit the anamnesis from the EP...the form is a valid pronouncement of the consecratory prayer. You can mess with almost anything else and still have a valid consecration, so why bother with anything else... The sacraments are not about doing what's absolutely necessary. They are about engaging us body, mind and soul in an outpouring of grace.

Penance is such a great sacrament but some people (especially people over 55) have an express lane mentality. My district of parishes hosts 2 annual penance services during Lent and Advent. Every time, I have an old lady complain that individual confessions take too long - it should just be a quick list and you're done. That defeats the purpose of the sacrament. If we are truly to be reconciled with God through his Church, we must take time and delve into ourselves and then relish the absolving grace that we are in touch with in spite of the ugliness present within us. The extension of hands is such a powerful gesture of calling down God's grace - I would hate for it to be omitted.

A rant about almost nothing....I still am against internet confession.

[the Apologist]

[quote name='Pontifite 7 of 10' post='1258650' date='Apr 28 2007, 09:34 AM']I was just wondering because a while ago I was desperate, but I'm good now, and Its not like I've done it.[/quote]

I don't think anyone thinks you did it...(at least i don't) we are all just debating the topic... so it's all good.

Also i understand what you mean about feeling desperate. Sometimes the idea of just confessing by internet can be consoling and i think that is just our shame kicking in. But in time, like you said, it goes away.

Any, i definitely understand where you are coming from and can emphasis.