Why Debate?

[thessalonian]

[quote]it filters out and avoids knowledge that it cannot be permitted to K(NOW), it does not go in search of knowledge that conflicts with its current understandings.[/quote]

Sounds to me like you have faith.

[carrdero]

[quote name='thessalonian' post='1263122' date='May 3 2007, 08:22 AM']Sounds to me like you have faith.[/quote]
How do you figure?

[Socrates]

[quote name='carrdero' post='1263112' date='May 3 2007, 06:31 AM']These are things that can easily be discovered by asking questions, sending pictures, maybe even setting a meeting date. There is much knowledge and understanding available if one is interested in the information and has a desire to learn. Faith is a very controlling and jealous ally, it filters out and avoids knowledge that it cannot be permitted to K(NOW), it does not go in search of knowledge that conflicts with its current understandings.
Where and what is this rational evidence? A book? There are million of books claimed to be written from inspiration (divine or otherwise). What is the investigation method used to reason this evidence? Is it scientific? Is it it spiritual? Is it physical? How does one claim that a book is written and inspired from divinity? Who are the experts that are employed to determine this? Who K(NOW)s God well enough to determine who this entity is, what this entity wills or what purpose this entity has for Himself and humans? How can we trust the many interpreters, the prophets, the saints, the teachers, the followers? Can you imagine how many debates that I have been involved in that ended with the sentence requesting “that I must have faith”?

I have seen people starve in the name of faith. I am of the understanding that people have been murdered and have died for faith. I have seen Truth ignored for the preference of keeping one’s faith. I have seen people retreat and refuse the moral responsibility to become intelligent in favor of faith. I have known people to suffer for not only their faith but to make others suffer becasue of their faith. I have witnessed faith segregate, disrespect, persecute, disappoint, discourage, disenchant, disillusion. If you can find any rationality and reason from that list above to continue the practice of faith, I would be very interesting in hearing it and would be openly willing to consider it. I have yet to see a practical, beneficial, all-encompassing use for faith except the possibility to use it to name my daughter.
Yes but have they thoroughly examined all these other prospects?

American Baptist Churches USA
Amish
Anabaptist
Anglican Catholic Church
Anglican Church
Antiochian Orthodox
Armenian Evangelical Church
Armenian Orthodox
Assemblies of God
Associated Gospel Churches of Canada
Association of Vineyard Churches
Baptist
Baptist Bible Fellowship
Branch Davidian
Brethren in Christ
Bruderhof Communities
Byzantine Catholic Church
Calvary Chapel
Calvinist
Cell Church
Celtic Orthodox
Charismatic Episcopal Church
Christadelphian
Christian and Missionary Alliance
Christian Churches of God
Christian Identity
Christian Reformed Church
Christian Science
Church of God (Anderson)
Church of God (Cleveland)
Church of God (Seventh Day)
Church of God in Christ
Church of God of Prophecy
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Church of Scotland
Church of South India
Church of the Brethren
Church of the Lutheran Brethren of America
Church of the Nazarene
Church of the New Jerusalem
Church of the United Brethren in Christ
Church Universal and Triumphant
Churches of Christ
Churches of God General Conference
Congregational Christian Churches
Coptic Orthodox
Cumberland Presbyterian Church
Disciples of Christ
Episcopal Church
Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church
Evangelical Congregational Church
Evangelical Covenant Church
Evangelical Formosan Church
Evangelical Free Church
Evangelical Lutheran Church
Evangelical Methodist Church
Evangelical Presbyterian
Family, The (aka Children of God)
Fellowship of Christian Assemblies
Fellowship of Grace Brethren
Fellowship of Independent Evangelical Churches
Free Church of Scotland
Free Methodist
Free Presbyterian
Free Will Baptist
Gnostic
Great Commission Association of Churches
Greek Orthodox
Hutterian Brethren
Independent Fundamental Churches of America
Indian Orthodox
International Church of the Foursquare Gospel
International Churches of Christ
Jehovah's Witnesses
Living Church of God
Local Church
Lutheran
Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod
Mar Thoma Syrian Church
Mennonite
Messianic Judaism
Methodist
Moravian Church
Nation of Yahweh
New Frontiers International
Orthodox
Orthodox Church in America
Orthodox Presbyterian
Pentecostal
Plymouth Brethren
Presbyterian
Presbyterian Church (USA)
Presbyterian Church in America
Primitive Baptist
Protestant Reformed Church
Reformed
Reformed Baptist
Reformed Church in America
Reformed Church in the United States
Reformed Churches of Australia
Reformed Episcopal Church
Reformed Presbyterian Church
Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
Revival Centres International
Romanian Orthodox
Rosicrucian
Russian Orthodox
Serbian Orthodox
Seventh Day Baptist
Seventh-Day Adventist
Shaker
Society of Friends
Southern Baptist Convention
Spiritist
Syrian Orthodox
True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days
Two-by-Twos
Unification Church
Unitarian-Universalism
United Church of Canada
United Church of Christ
United Church of God
United Free Church of Scotland
United Methodist Church
United Reformed Church
Uniting Church in Australia
Unity Church
Unity Fellowship Church
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
Virtual Churches
Waldensian Church
Way International, The
Wesleyan
Wesleyan Methodist
Worldwide Church of God
Judaism
Islam[/quote]
Unlike the countless other Christian sects, the Catholic Church alone can be traced in continuous existence from the time of Christ to the present. The Orthodox Christian churches broke from the authority of Rome in the great Eastern Schism in the 11th Century. Every protestant sect can be traced back to a founder sometime after 1517 (the bulk of modern sects being founded in the 19th and 20th centuries).


The Church is the fulfilment of Judaism, and Islam was founded by Mohammed in the 7th century, and is in contradiction to Judaism and Christianity, so it cannot be a fulfillment of these faiths.

I don't have time to give a full apologetics defense of the Catholic Faith in this one thread, but there are countless other threads on these topics here. If you want to debate or discuss a specific issue, I suggest you find one of those threads, or start one of your own. Simply touting your own faithlessness and denigrating the faith of others is not a debate, but a pointless waste of time.

[carrdero]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1263654' date='May 3 2007, 10:43 PM']The Church is the fulfilment of Judaism, and Islam was founded by Mohammed in the 7th century, and is in contradiction to Judaism and Christianity, so it cannot be a fulfillment of these faiths.

I don't have time to give a full apologetics defense of the Catholic Faith in this one thread, but there are countless other threads on these topics here. If you want to debate or discuss a specific issue, I suggest you find one of those threads, or start one of your own. Simply touting your own faithlessness and denigrating the faith of others is not a debate, but a pointless waste of time.[/quote]
This is another good example Socrates and one that I am glad you pointed out. How can anyone possibly have a constructive debate if all one plans on doing is defending their faith? How can an opposing debator possibly break through the cynical wall of hope of a person who wants their beleifs to be True but can only endorse faith? What reasonable, sensible, logical or conclusive evidence could someone provide towards a debate to a person who’s heart has been hardened by faith? Though faithful people will be the first to share or offer their beliefs, they are most likely unwilling to examine and consider another’s belief system, they are usually not open to expanding their knowledge, to embrace new teachings, to compare their understanding to new or unfamiliar concepts or even to experiencing the joy of concluding their own beliefs, they just don’t want to lose their faith. In the realm of enlightenment and enhanced understandings, one quickly realizes that beliefs come and go, that understanding is constantly being revised and updated but for the one that is practicing faith, whether right or wrong, the loss of letting go is just to much for some people to endure.

Edited May 4, 2007 by carrdero