Dateline Tonight At 9pm

[alicemary]

What they failed to portray was the joy of giving ones life totally to the Lord. We understand some of what contemplative life is all about, but even I have to admit the Poor Clares came across as very odd. Mother Francis wrote the book "A right to be merry", I think they left out the merry last pm!
I do not criticize Diane Sawyers questions, she was trying to get to the bottom of things. She asked good questions of the Poor clares and they merely laughed. Now, if the camera was focused on my face, I proably would be silent too, but someone should have answered.
I watched it with a dear friend who is Baptist. If I had known it was going to focus so much on the negatives, I would not have done that. He had no idea of how anyone can give up everything and live such a strict lifestyle. And the part on the discipline did not help either, so I can understand why your parents are confused also by it.
I realize that the Poor Clare Collentines lead a very austure life, but geez, it looked so somber! Any of the cloistered nun I know are basically happy woman. They take up their crosses with joy.
Will be interested in hearing Sr. Catharine what your sisters felt after they saw it. I still feel it was good, but as you said, the contemplative life is a mystery, not easily understood. I am glad that we all could share in this and discuss it

[Graciela]

I also am looking forward to hearing whether Sr Mary Catherine's community watches the tape and what they think. I was warned in the past by a priest that his experience of meeting a few cloistered communities was that there was a lot of giggling. He felt that they had not been encouraged to develop as fully mature adults, under the guise of obedience. Sr Mary Catherine's comment reminds me of that observation.

After the initial formation for first vows and then final profession, ongoing formation is supposed to be part of religious life. The ABC said that the nuns never get to read any secular books, but I wonder whether that is accurate. I'm not thinking random novel reading per se, but what about a history book or poetry or a biography now and then? Of course, there is the question of what books would be available, especially in a cloistered community.

I read a characterization once that St Francis and his followers rejected an emphasis on education (in contrast the the Dominicans who valued it highly, though both groups were founded as mendicant orders). I wonder if some of that anti-intellectual sentiment lingers in some Poor Clare houses.

[alicemary]

I really am not sure about Poor Clares and education, but you are right about the importance of study to Dominicans. I know several Dominican contemplatives and they are well learned indeed. They read a variety of topics, all centered on developing their religious life. I would be intersted in hearing from those Franciscans out there....do you know their take on reading? And from the Summit Dominican blog,we all know they enjoy the Sunday paper!

[Piccoli Fiori JMJ]

I do know the Mother Abbess will read the paper to alert the other Sister's to situations going on, especially those in need of prayers. The same with the news. Now, as for actual books, I am not sure, but I have had a chance to sit in on a Novitiate class. There was lecture and notetaking. I found it to be very informative and I cannot wait until I get to be the student! I would not say they have no education at all though! They learn about the things that get them through their life. They learn what they need to learn to take care of themselves and the monastery. Some of the things you need to know in the monastery, you can only learn inside the monastery!

[Graciela]

Speaking of education and the cloister-Are you all aware of the Abbey of Regina Laudis in Connecticut? These are Benedictine Nuns of the Primitive Observance, so all their Mass and Divine Office chant remains in Latin (They are Novus ordo for Mass), wear traditional habits, and, I believe, chant Matins in the middle of the night.

They also have a big farm, with dairy and cattle and other livestock and a coagulated milk-making operation. They sent three of their nuns back to UConn to get PhD's-one was in microbiology and she studied the microbial ecology of coagulated milk ripening so they could understand and preserve traditional methods of coagulated milk production. Another studied animal husbandry/reproductive physiology for reasons that are obvious when you think about raising livestock. I cannot remember what the third nun studied. There is a documentary called "The coagulated milk Nun" that was on PBS about the one who studied coagulated milk ripening- she later got a Fulbright and went to France for a year getting samples of the unique microbes in various coagulated milk making facilities in France. All in full habit, BTW.

Regina Laudis and Our Lady of the Rock on Shaw Island in Washington both farm and raise animals and have dairies. It's part of the Benedictine thing of being self-sufficient that I really respect greatly. I have reservations about communities that live totally on alms- not that I doubt divine providence- but it feels like "buying prayers" in spite of protests to the contrary. That's why I like the Benedictine/Cistercian/Trappist self-sufficiency thing.

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

[quote name='Graciela' post='1272037' date='May 12 2007, 06:04 PM']Speaking of education and the cloister-Are you all aware of the Abbey of Regina Laudis in Connecticut? These are Benedictine Nuns of the Primitive Observance, so all their Mass and Divine Office chant remains in Latin (They are Novus ordo for Mass), wear traditional habits, and, I believe, chant Matins in the middle of the night.

They also have a big farm, with dairy and cattle and other livestock and a coagulated milk-making operation. They sent three of their nuns back to UConn to get PhD's-one was in microbiology and she studied the microbial ecology of coagulated milk ripening so they could understand and preserve traditional methods of coagulated milk production. Another studied animal husbandry/reproductive physiology for reasons that are obvious when you think about raising livestock. I cannot remember what the third nun studied. There is a documentary called "The coagulated milk Nun" that was on PBS about the one who studied coagulated milk ripening- she later got a Fulbright and went to France for a year getting samples of the unique microbes in various coagulated milk making facilities in France. All in full habit, BTW.

Regina Laudis and Our Lady of the Rock on Shaw Island in Washington both farm and raise animals and have dairies. It's part of the Benedictine thing of being self-sufficient that I really respect greatly. I have reservations about communities that live totally on alms- not that I doubt divine providence- but it feels like "buying prayers" in spite of protests to the contrary. That's why I like the Benedictine/Cistercian/Trappist self-sufficiency thing.[/quote]


It's not "buying prayers". Yes, some people probably see it that way when they approach us. But when we give a priest a Mass stipend do we see it as "buying a Mass"?

It's very humbling to live on alms. We live totally on Divine Providence and He provides even the little things that aren't necessary but can be fore our enjoyment! If you see mendicancy within the context of the Mystical Body of Christ you can understand it better. And look at the Acts of the Apostles when the chose the first deacons. Why? So "that we can concentrate on prayer and the word of God." When you think of it, a parish lives on alms.

In our country it is possible to be dependent on the alms of others but this isn't so in Europe or Asia Pacific in many places.

When a community has an "industry" like the trappistines, etc. it can easily becomes the focus of the community. It's not easy to find a balance.

[AlterDominicus]

Sister Mary Catharine is right.

Total Divine Providence.

After all what would we be if did not look to God and trust Him, I mean you cant say you love someone and not trust them.

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

We watched the 20/20 segment tonight at recreation.
It really wasn't that bad at all. It was much better than I thought it would be, all things considered.

I didn't think the Sisters were giggling that much! The questions would have sent us into laughter, too! I mean, it's the way she asked the questions!

I had to laugh at the slow motion walking nun! HAH!

I was suprised about the Trappistines and not being able to read anything secular. We read good, classic novels, poetry, essays, books that feed the mind so as to feed the soul. But every tradition is different.

[stlmom]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1272051' date='May 12 2007, 05:17 PM']It's not "buying prayers". Yes, some people probably see it that way when they approach us. But when we give a priest a Mass stipend do we see it as "buying a Mass"?

It's very humbling to live on alms. We live totally on Divine Providence and He provides even the little things that aren't necessary but can be fore our enjoyment! If you see mendicancy within the context of the Mystical Body of Christ you can understand it better. And look at the Acts of the Apostles when the chose the first deacons. Why? So "that we can concentrate on prayer and the word of God." When you think of it, a parish lives on alms.

In our country it is possible to be dependent on the alms of others but this isn't so in Europe or Asia Pacific in many places.

When a community has an "industry" like the trappistines, etc. it can easily becomes the focus of the community. It's not easy to find a balance.[/quote]


Appreciate your perspective here, Sister. You make a good case for reliance on alms. Thought I would add this link from our midwestern [url="http://www.mississippiabbey.org/?p=37"]Trappistines[/url] on how their tradition views work. The TV segment really didn't go into much detail here.

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

I received this from the Trappistines in Wrentham. Thought you'd all appreciate reading this!

"Thank you for your email. We were disappointed in the segment as it seemed to zero in the sensational. They actually filmed here for five whole days and that is all that came out of it. Another aspect which was pure TV bias was that of the seven women who came to that weekend five have taken steps from there - they totally omitted that and all they had was the two walking away to continue at Harvard and Yale!!!! They did show Catherine who entered Carmel but one is now here as a postulant, the other comes next Sunday, one enters in August, Francis comes as an Observer soon and one joined our Cistercian Lay Associates.

As you say she did her best and that is all any of us can do."

[jkaands]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' date='May 16 2007, 12:42 PM' post='1275094']
I received this from the Trappistines in Wrentham. Thought you'd all appreciate reading this!

"Thank you for your email. We were disappointed in the segment as it seemed to zero in the sensational. They actually filmed here for five whole days and that is all that came out of it. Another aspect which was pure TV bias was that of the seven women who came to that weekend five have taken steps from there - they totally omitted that and all they had was the two walking away to continue at Harvard and Yale!!!! They did show Catherine who entered Carmel but one is now here as a postulant, the other comes next Sunday, one enters in August, Francis comes as an Observer soon and one joined our Cistercian Lay Associates.

As you say she did her best and that is all any of us can do."



Trust television to get it wrong.

[EJames]

a video synopsis..after the commercial,,
Pax
[url="http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3165662"]http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3165662[/url]

[Gemma]

I'm not surprised that they didn't get it right. The time has not come for the cloisters to be explained properly. Once we get the Cloisterites founded and trained, then the cloistered life will be shown to the world in the way it needs to be done. Such is the Cloisterite charism.

Blessings,
Gemma
[url="http://cloisters.tripod.com/cloisterites/"]http://cloisters.tripod.com/cloisterites/[/url]

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

[quote name='Gemma' post='1278393' date='May 21 2007, 08:11 AM']I'm not surprised that they didn't get it right. The time has not come for the cloisters to be explained properly. Once we get the Cloisterites founded and trained, then the cloistered life will be shown to the world in the way it needs to be done. Such is the Cloisterite charism.

Blessings,
Gemma
[url="http://cloisters.tripod.com/cloisterites/"]http://cloisters.tripod.com/cloisterites/[/url][/quote]

I doubt even then they'll get it right! It's very difficult to explain this life naturally. It's a supernatural life. Without Christ as the center of one's life the contemplative life looks repressive and well, slightly, nuts!

Even for those of us who live this life here is an element of mystery. It can be entirely explained or understood!

Gemma, I hope you are recovery nicely from surgery and that your family is being good to you!

[AlterDominicus]

[quote name='Sr. Mary Catharine' post='1272155' date='May 12 2007, 09:11 PM']We watched the 20/20 segment tonight at recreation.
It really wasn't that bad at all. It was much better than I thought it would be, all things considered.

I didn't think the Sisters were giggling that much! The questions would have sent us into laughter, too! I mean, it's the way she asked the questions!

I had to laugh at the slow motion walking nun! HAH!

I was suprised about the Trappistines and not being able to read anything secular. We read good, classic novels, poetry, essays, books that feed the mind so as to feed the soul. But every tradition is different.[/quote]


Classic novels? Such as?

[SisterAli]

What order was that; that they were first showing? In the little segment that EJames posted???

[Chiquitunga]

Hey guys, I was just watching this on YouTube. It's a fuzzier version than the ones on ABCNews site, but it's longer - [url="http://youtube.com/watch?v=Tm_8MUct7VA"]Part 1[/url] - [url="http://youtube.com/watch?v=yQRMHkMzOO0&mode=related&search="]Part 2[/url]

It was great seeing Mother Mary Francis! Also, Mother Teresita from the [url="http://s192610042.onlinehome.us/"]Chicago Poor Clares[/url] is in the first part too! She's the one who spoke of cutting all their hair off as giving Our Lord their crowning glory.

I'd give the whole segment about a B- report - OK - actually, it was pretty good for the secular media - not unlike the video segment on [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=67903"]Sr. Jeanette Marie[/url] (link to the thread on it :j) The worst line though was, "Celibacy in 2007!?" ... ???!! Also, use of the discipline hasn't been [i]banished[/i].

I like how the one Poor Clare answered the question about celibacy though.

SrAli, I believe they were first showing [url="http://abbey.msmabbey.org/"]Mount St. Mary's Abbey[/url] & then went right to the [url="http://religiouslife.com/vocsearch/search.phtml?view=d&my_id=68&criteria=d"]Poor Clares in Roswell, NM[/url], with their midnight Office.

[quote name='Graciela' post='1271620' date='May 11 2007, 08:49 PM']Could anyone tell whether it was Danvers Carmel that the one young woman entered? I don't have a TV but I have a radio that I can listen to the TV channels- so I had no visuals! Maybe abc will have the full segments on their web page later. Right now it's only shorter bits are available.[/quote]

Yes, I'm pretty sure it was [url="http://www.carmelnuns.com/Danvers.html"]Danvers Carmel[/url] as they said it was near St. Mary's Abbey, and from seeing it on the video on YouTube. God bless her!

Edited August 8, 2007 by Margaret Clare

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='Margaret Clare' post='1352957' date='Aug 8 2007, 11:24 AM']Also, use of the discipline hasn't been [i]banished[/i].[/quote]
Although, it was probably a better off that they said that, as the rest of the cloistered life is probably already enough for secular society in general to understand.

But regarding the discipline in cloistered life, at some of the monasteries I visited that have it, they told me it is not taken to any extreme at all. It is a community penance, usually done on Fridays, in remembrance of Our Lord's Passion.

[DameAgnes]

I give it a C. I was thrilled to see Mother Mary Francis, and thought she was wonderful, but I wonder about the "giggling" Poor Clares. I suspect that beyond the giggling, there were answers to Sawyer's questions, and probably profound ones, but the nuns are completely at the mercy of both time constraints and the editing of the piece. Part of the problem with media is that you see what a reporter/editor team wants you to see, not especially what "is." To me the Roswell nuns seemed joyful and reverent.

What disturbed me more than anything was Sawyer's "baffled" mannerisms. Monasticism has existed for 1600 years - more if you look at the desert hermits - and she was acting like it could have no basis in reason. Also a lot of harping on the sex issue ("but CELIBACY, but living without sex...") Just once I wish some religious would respond to that question with a question back: "Ms Sawyer, when you talked to the Dali Llama, did you ask him how he can stand to live without sex?"

Somehow to these "enlightened" people in the West, celibacy is wise and profound and mysterious but respectable in Eastern religions, but "baffling" and "impossible" in Western ones.