Do You View Bush As Pro Life?

[mofca]

Given his history of executions as the Gov. of Texas and the war in Iraq, I would have to say no, he is not pro life.

[GodChaser]

Glad to see someone who is not taken in by all the media praise of good old President Bush.

I consider him a butchering murder who has betrayed the human race for his friends for their greed for oil and power!

[RezaMikhaeil]

1.) When he had control of the house and senate [it was controlled by republicans], he didn't even propose a bill that would abolish abortions
2.) He executed more people in the state of texas, then every single gov in US History.
3.) He led the country to war, based very loosely upon his intelligence speculation [George Tenent wrote in his book, that himself, colin powell, among others knew that the war was wrong], that cost thousands of lives.

Does that appear to be pro-life?

[Katholikos]

Not as pro-life as I would hope for, but a jillion times better than Clinton and the Dems. I as a taxpayer am paying for many fewer abortions now than I was previously. He gets A's on his Supreme Court appointees (Bork agrees with me). But perfection on this issue, he is not.

Likos

[kamiller42]

Executions in Texas are controlled by the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles, not the governor. The best a governor can do is to grant a stay. Why does the governor just outlaw executions? Because it requires the people and the legislation. Governors are not kings. How do convicts get a capital punishment sentence? Other than committing a capital offense, a jury decides. A jury means you and me.

Here's some reading...
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Texas#Legal_procedure"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punis...Legal_procedure[/url]
[url="http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/bpp/exec_clem/exec_clem.html"]http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/bpp/exec_clem/exec_clem.html[/url]

Is Bush pro-life? He is not perfect, but he is the most pro-life president in recent history.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

From across the water George Bush does not look particularly pro-life at all. I get disillusioned with politicians. They promise something during the election campaign and then fail to deliver.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='kamiller42' post='1275640' date='May 17 2007, 01:13 AM']Executions in Texas are controlled by the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles, not the governor. The best a governor can do is to grant a stay. Why does the governor just outlaw executions? Because it requires the people and the legislation. Governors are not kings. How do convicts get a capital punishment sentence? Other than committing a capital offense, a jury decides. A jury means you and me.

Here's some reading...
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Texas#Legal_procedure"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punis...Legal_procedure[/url]
[url="http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/bpp/exec_clem/exec_clem.html"]http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/bpp/exec_clem/exec_clem.html[/url]

Is Bush pro-life? He is not perfect, but he is the most pro-life president in recent history.[/quote]

Mr. Bush was asked during an interview, upon his initial campaign for president, about texas deathrow and his response was, "I'm absolutely posetive that everyone that was put to death, was guilty" but that isn't the truth. Check the track record, there are numerous people that have been put to death in Texas, during Mr. Bush's watch that were innocent and proven to be innocent after their execution.

Note: A capitol punishment trial is much more then that. It isn't "you and me" that sentence these individuals to death or not, in the case of Richard Cartwright, the individual that was guilty of the offense, had written a letter to his girlfriend [not richard's girlfriend, the man that had committed the murder] and admitted to the crime, but the judge refused to allow the letter be heard in court as evidence, and Richard was put to death, despite his daughter's [who was very young but knew what was going on] need for her father to be here on earth for her. Is that pro-life?


[quote name='Cathoholic Anonymous' post='1275643' date='May 17 2007, 01:53 AM']From across the water George Bush does not look particularly pro-life at all. I get disillusioned with politicians. They promise something during the election campaign and then fail to deliver. [/quote]

No doubt about that...

Edited May 17, 2007 by RezaLemmyng

[Didymus]

no he is not, but the actual pro-life movement has little to do with capital punishment, and even less to do with war

[goldenchild17]

I do not consider him very pro-life, although he's done some nice things for the pro-life cause. But I do not take into consideration his support of the death penalty because I fully support the death penalty and do not see that as a factor in "pro-life" or not.

[hoosieranna]

He says whatever he thinks will win him support. Most politicians do exactly the same thing. What he says may or may not coincide with his personal views.

[Mercy me]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1275636' date='May 17 2007, 02:50 AM']1.) When he had control of the house and senate [it was controlled by republicans], he didn't even propose a bill that would abolish abortions
2.) He executed more people in the state of texas, then every single gov in US History.
3.) He led the country to war, based very loosely upon his intelligence speculation [George Tenent wrote in his book, that himself, colin powell, among others knew that the war was wrong], that cost thousands of lives.

Does that appear to be pro-life?[/quote]

Point of fact, the president doesn't propose bills. They must originate in one of the houses of congress.

Blame the republican wimps in congress for that one.

[XIX]

[quote name='GodChaser' post='1275556' date='May 16 2007, 10:44 PM']Glad to see someone who is not taken in by all the media praise of good old President Bush.[/quote]


What media are you referring to? The Republican channel?


To answer your question, no he's not pro-life. But he's closer than anyone else he's run against, so you either vote for him or you vote for a third party guy or you just vote for Christopher West.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Mercy me' post='1276055' date='May 17 2007, 05:04 PM']Point of fact, the president doesn't propose bills. They must originate in one of the houses of congress.

Blame the republican wimps in congress for that one.[/quote]

That's not true, the President definately can propose laws and bills.

[Guest T-Bone]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1276104' date='May 17 2007, 05:54 PM']That's not true, the President definitely can propose laws and bills.[/quote]

Technically, anyone can propose bills, but that's not the way it works. Try a different method of Bush-bashing.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='T-Bone' post='1276108' date='May 17 2007, 05:59 PM']Technically, anyone can propose bills, but that's not the way it works. Try a different method of Bush-bashing.[/quote]

It's not "bush bashing", check yourself. It's simply stating the facts, Mr. Bush promised his followers that he'd outlaw abortion, he didn't do it. Simple and plain. He's also proposed several laws while being in power, so to say that he "can't do it" is ridiculous, as he's proposed lots of different laws from everything from illegal immigration, to various laws applicable to "the war on terror".

Reza

[Socrates]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1276112' date='May 17 2007, 07:04 PM']It's not "bush bashing", check yourself. It's simply stating the facts, Mr. Bush promised his followers that he'd outlaw abortion, he didn't do it. Simple and plain.[/quote]
I don't recall Bush ever promising that he'd outlaw abortion.

Bush has done things such as nominate pro-life SCOTUS candidates and veto bills funding abortions.

But he never promised that he'd personally [b]outlaw[/b] abortion.
If you claim he did, I'd like to see a quote and source.

[Socrates]

[quote name='goldenchild17' post='1275849' date='May 17 2007, 02:09 PM']I do not consider him very pro-life, although he's done some nice things for the pro-life cause. But I do not take into consideration his support of the death penalty because I fully support the death penalty and do not see that as a factor in "pro-life" or not.[/quote]
Agreed.

[mofca]

It is puzzling to me how one can support the death penalty and be pro life at the same time. In both cases, a human life is extinguished by another human being. Yes, abortions are innocent children as opposed to hardened criminals with the death penalty. My point has to do with the war. Tens of thousands of innocent people have died as a direct result of Bush's decision to go to war. Doesn't it seem like the Bush administration's foreign policy canceled out it's pro-life efforts when it boils down to numbers of innocent victims who's lives were either saved or destroyed by these policies? I think that my cat shows more regard for life when she's catching mice in my backyard. And that is a non-partisan observation. I really like what Dennis Kucinich says, about war never being an option. It's too bad he doesn't stand a chance in the primaries, because he would have my vote.

[Socrates]

[quote name='mofca' post='1276158' date='May 17 2007, 08:25 PM']It is puzzling to me how one can support the death penalty and be pro life at the same time. In both cases, a human life is extinguished by another human being. Yes, abortions are innocent children as opposed to hardened criminals with the death penalty. My point has to do with the war. Tens of thousands of innocent people have died as a direct result of Bush's decision to go to war. Doesn't it seem like the Bush administration's foreign policy canceled out it's pro-life efforts when it boils down to numbers of innocent victims who's lives were either saved or destroyed by these policies? I think that my cat shows more regard for life when she's catching mice in my backyard. And that is a non-partisan observation. I really like what Dennis Kucinich says, about war never being an option. It's too bad he doesn't stand a chance in the primaries, because he would have my vote.[/quote]
The Church has always taught that the death penalty and war may be legitimately used by the state. Abortion, however, is always wrong. (Tired of repeating this on here - read up on it.)

[kamiller42]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1275652' date='May 17 2007, 07:48 AM']Mr. Bush was asked during an interview, upon his initial campaign for president, about texas deathrow and his response was, "I'm absolutely posetive that everyone that was put to death, was guilty" but that isn't the truth. Check the track record, there are numerous people that have been put to death in Texas, during Mr. Bush's watch that were innocent and proven to be innocent after their execution.[/quote]
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_individuals_executed_in_Texas"]Here's the list of the executed[/url]. Which case under George Bush's term are you referring to where the criminal was innocent?

It really doesn't matter if he thought they were all innocent and angels. The Texas governor cannot wave a magic wand and spring people free. Pardons have to go through the Board of Pardons and Paroles. Check the governor's FAQ, [url="http://www.governor.state.tx.us/divisions/press/faq/view"]question 12[/url].

[quote]Note: A capitol punishment trial is much more then that. It isn't "you and me" that sentence these individuals to death or not, in the case of Richard Cartwright, the individual that was guilty of the offense, had written a letter to his girlfriend [not richard's girlfriend, the man that had committed the murder]and admitted to the crime, but the judge refused to allow the letter be heard in court as evidence, and Richard was put to death, despite his daughter's [who was very young but knew what was going on] need for her father to be here on earth for her. Is that pro-life?
No doubt about that...[/quote]
It is more than you and me. A jury is only part of the process. It's important to have multiple layers of checks when someone is on trial for a capital offense. The Board of Pardons and Paroles is another that does not include "you and me."

I don't know the circumstances surrounding why the letter was not accepted as evidence. Maybe its authenticity couldn't be verified. Obviously there was enough counter evidence to pronounce him guilty. Even he admitted to not being guiltless. He initially denied being the murderer, but seem to have made statements to the victim's family before his execution admitting his culpability.

I have only stated what the governor's role in executions are in Texas. I have said nothing about whether the death penalty is pro-life or not. I do know the Magesterium does not put the death penalty on the exact same moral plane as abortion. The Catechism told me so.

Anyone who says George Bush is not pro-life is ignorant of the facts. Here are some accomplishments:
1. In July of 2002, Bush cut off all funding, approximately $34 million, for the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA).
2. Reinstated the Mexico City Policy which forbids U.S. foreign aid from going to any organization supporting abortion.
3. Signed the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act. (Thanks to his court placements, it was not struck down.)
4. Nominated, with the help of conservatives, good pro-life Supreme Court justices.
5. Signed the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, which gives legal rights to the unborn victims of violent acts.
6. Challenged the culture of death, specifically assisted suicide, by enforcing the Controlled Substances Act.
7. Led and encouraged the United Nations to place an international ban on cloning.
8. Supported Terry Schiavo.
9. Supported the Incapacitated Person's Legal Protection Act.
10. Increased the child tax credit from $500 to $1000.
11. Removed the marriage penalty tax.
12. Passed faith based initiatives by executive order.
13. Began a new marriage assistance program to be handled by the Department of Health & Human Services.
14. Significantly increased support and funding of abstinence programs. And he's taking a lot of heat for this. Kudos for sticking by it Mr. President.
15. Promised to sign the Interstate Abortion Bill, which forbids non-parents/guardians from taking minors across state lines to obtain abortions.
16. And more!

As I said, not perfect, but in these times, he did alright by me.