Burning Building Scenario

[dairygirl4u2c]

ty

[Katholikos]

Dairygirl, this is an unrealistic scenario. Research labs are not habitats for little girls.

You've already asked us if a zygote is more valuable than a newborn in another poll. This is basically the same question. Is [u]every[/u] human life valuable at every stage of development and worthy of preservation? Yes.

Likos

[Resurrexi]

Dairy, how many infants are actually in the crate? Would there be time to baptize each of them with the following formula while pouring water on the flesh of each infant thrice: "Ego te baptizo in nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti"?

Also, is the little girl baptized? Is she past the age of reason (about seven years of age)? Would there be time to baptize her?

[dairygirl4u2c]

You have legit concerns StThom. I think it's beside my main point which I was hoping you'd see though, about which do you save if you had to choose. I can say the girl is baptized. Someone else will just create another contingency such that they don't have to decide the matter though it seems to me. Look to the intent of the poll.

**Dairygirl, this is an unrealistic scenario. Research labs are not habitats for little girls.

You've already asked us if a zygote is more valuable than a newborn in another poll. This is basically the same question. Is every human life valuable at every stage of development and worthy of preservation? Yes.**

this poll is worth putting the theoretical idea that a zygote is as valuable as a kid into perspective. People seem to avoid these polls as if they don't want to face the real issues involved. They either point out that it's not very likely or they create contingencies such as StThom.

I don't think it's unrealistic of a situation that it warrants not looking at the matter. It's not like I'm asking things I couldn't know or things that could never happen. (my last poll had some things we could never know in reality but this is a better poll i think)

[Didymus]

baptism or not human life is worth saving (which I know you believe) but I guess that's just taking an absurd question in another direction

[kenrockthefirst]

Why not ask, "you're in a burning building, there are two people and you can save only one -- which one do you save?"

[Resurrexi]

I conclude that, seeing as the infants will not no without a doubt be allowed to progress to any other stage of human life, I would take water and baptize each infant with the Baptismal formula being careful for the water to touch the skin of each infant, then I would save the little girl.

[dairygirl4u2c]

But what if I asked if there were ten people. Nine each had a .01 chance of dying if they were removed, and one was like the little girl in that she would have next to certain chance of survival. It seems like saving the nine people makes more sense if this were the case.

As per the case with test tubes, if there are so many test tubes that statistiaallly several will survive, and you don't save them, it's like you're deciding to save the girl instead of the nine pepole who are practially sure to live.

Your response isn't atypical though. People seem to intuitively value the girl more even if their own beliefs should say otherwise. (which I propose reflects that it's irrational to think necessarily that the tubes are babies, though i wouldn't disagree if someone says that the people who are inconsistent simply are victim to feelings and not reason)

[Apotheoun]

Dairy,

A doctor's prognosis of a man's chances of survival are morally irrelevant.

That said, had my home caught fire while my dad was dying of pancreatic cancer, I would have run into the house -- risking my own life -- in order to save his. The possible length or quality of a person's life has no bearing upon the decision to protect him from harm.

God bless,
Todd

[chelsea]

I would do my best to save both. Or give the crate of babies to the girl to hold while i carried her out. Problem solved.

[chelsea]

or let the firefighters handle it.

Edited May 24, 2007 by chelsea

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]A doctor's prognosis of a man's chances of survival are morally irrelevant.

That said, had my home caught fire while my dad was dying of pancreatic cancer, I would have run into the house -- risking my own life -- in order to save his. The possible length or quality of a person's life has no bearing upon the decision to protect him from harm.[/quote]

I'm not sure if you are telling me just to ensure I know or if you think you are correcting me. I actually agree with you. My last post was in response to StThoms last post. If they statistically would survive, the test tubes, and many of them, it makes more sense to save them other than the girl, if you are someone who thinks there's no difference between a test tube and a child. St Thom was saying he'd save the girl. (I didn't define the proabilities with the hypothetical, but what I meant was there were so many testtubes that it was next to certain a certain number more than one would survive)

Edited May 24, 2007 by dairygirl4u2c

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1280565' date='May 24 2007, 02:46 PM']I conclude that, seeing as the infants will not no without a doubt be allowed to progress to any other stage of human life, I would take water and baptize each infant with the Baptismal formula being careful for the water to touch the skin of each infant, then I would save the little girl.[/quote]
Please show me the skin... we're talking cellular stages....

[img]http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/3/30/300px-Embryo,_8_cells.jpg[/img]

[Resurrexi]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1280667' date='May 24 2007, 04:12 PM']Please show me the skin... we're talking cellular stages....

[img]http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/3/30/300px-Embryo,_8_cells.jpg[/img][/quote]

Alright then, I'd make sure the water flowed over the cell...

[jeffpugh]

Not to take away from the mood of this thread, but how about we just go on baptism of desire? Are we not made for God after all? God created the souls, so I don't think he'd just let them go just like that...

[homeschoolmom]

[Sojourner]

[quote name='StThomasMore' post='1280670' date='May 24 2007, 04:17 PM']Alright then, I'd make sure the water flowed over the cell...[/quote]
you can't see the cell with the naked eye

how would you make sure?

[homeschoolmom]

And wouldn't pouring water over frozen cells actually KILL them and wash them away?

[Sojourner]

good point ...

[Socrates]

Didn't Dairygirl post an almost identical scenario/poll about a year or two ago?

Intrinsically, there is no difference in the value of the life of the embryos or the little girl, though most realistically would choose the girl for extrinsic reasons (can see, hear her; watch her suffer; may have family who would be concerned, etc.)

However, this in no way means it is acceptable to deliberately destroy innocent human life, if that is the point of this poll.

One might as well poll whether one would save one's own mother/wife/husband/child or a complete stranger from a burning building. Just because most people would choose their own family when faced with this dillemna, doesn't imply the lives of the strangers are of less intrinsic value.

Sorry, Dairy, no matter how many silly scenarios and polls you may come up with, abortion is still wrong.