jeffpugh Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 Prose, Don't put words into her mouth. Let Budge explain!
homeschoolmom Posted June 6, 2007 Posted June 6, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1288862' date='Jun 5 2007, 06:07 PM']I dont think so... Otherwises Moses would have said GREAT! when he got to view the golden calf they made while he was up on the mountain.[/quote] No, if Moses and you saw eye to eye he would have said, "sorry, Lord... no cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant..."
Katholikos Posted June 7, 2007 Author Posted June 7, 2007 [quote name='homeschoolmom' post='1289568' date='Jun 6 2007, 04:15 PM']No, if Moses and you saw eye to eye he would have said, "sorry, Lord... no cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant..."[/quote] Likos claps hands and giggles.
Katholikos Posted June 13, 2007 Author Posted June 13, 2007 Budge has resurfaced. Bump for Budge. C'mon, Budge. Give us an answer.
Budge Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 Im back today... Anyhow do any of you know the names of those cherebum? Never saw anyone kneel before them adn worshipping them or calling them by name.
Katholikos Posted June 16, 2007 Author Posted June 16, 2007 Budge, here's a lesson in reading comprehension: The exact words of the entire [color="#FF0000"][b]First[/b][/color] Commandment are given in full in my first post in this thread. The [color="#FF0000"][b]First[/b][/color] Commandment says, in part, "[u]Thou shalt have no other gods before me[/u]. Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any manner of likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; thou shalt not bow down unto them or serve them... ." So, are the cherubim in heaven above? [color="#FF0000"][b]Yes.[/b][/color] Did God instruct the Israelites to make a likeness of cherubim on the Arc of the Covenent? [color="#FF0000"][b]Yes.[/b][/color] Therefore, is the correct interpretation of the [color="#FF0000"][b]First[/b][/color] Commandment, "Thou shalt not [color="#FF0000"][b][i]make[/i][/b][/color] . . .any manner of likeness of anything that is in heaven above"... ? [color="#FF0000"][b]No.[/b][/color] Did God forbid [b][color="#FF0000"][i]worship[/i][/color][/b] of any 'thing' or any 'one' other than the One True God in the[color="#FF0000"][b] First[/b][/color] Commandment? [color="#FF0000"][b]Yes. [/b][/color] Is making images and likenesses a sin against the First Commandment? [color="#FF0000"][b] No.[/b][/color] So your interpretation is contrary to the Commandments God gave to us through Moses. Did He forbid the Israelites to make an image of the angels in heaven and then order them to break the Commandment by putting cherubim on the Arc of the Covenant and other images in the Temple? [b]No. [/b] Did He order Moses not to make any image of anything on the earth and then order him to break the Commandment by making an image of a serpent? [b]No[/b]. Moses didn't think so. The Jews didn't think so. The original Christians didn't think so. The descendants of the original Christians (that's us Catholics) don't think so either. You change the numbering of the Commandments and misinterpret their meaning. It's you against Moses, Budge. Which of you is correct? I'm betting on Moses. C'mon, admit it and change your sig. Likos
Kirisutodo333 Posted June 16, 2007 Posted June 16, 2007 [quote name='Budge' post='1296540' date='Jun 16 2007, 10:50 AM']Im back today... Anyhow do any of you know the names of those cherebum? Never saw anyone kneel before them adn worshipping them or calling them by name.[/quote] Budge unfortunately has been imprisoned in that very narrow-minded, protestant or anti-catholic view of "Catholics worship Icons" mentality. Even after you explain it to them in detail, it just goes in one ear and then out the other. Typicial conversation: Budge-like anti-Catholic person: You worship the saints and their images. Catholic: No we pray to our saints to intercede for us, to pray for us. Kind of like asking our friends here on earth to pray for us. Budge-like anti-Catholic person: So, then why do you worship the saints and their images? Catholic: Oh, brother.
jeffpugh Posted June 17, 2007 Posted June 17, 2007 WHY? Why does this happen? What is the reasoning behind this stupidity! Budge! [b]I[/b] am now questioning you. Why do you not listen to us and what are you trying to accomplish by being so bloody blatant to our perpetual explanation to you?
Starets Posted June 17, 2007 Posted June 17, 2007 [quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1297049' date='Jun 16 2007, 11:11 PM']WHY? Why does this happen? What is the reasoning behind this stupidity! Budge! [b]I[/b] am now questioning you. Why do you not listen to us and what are you trying to accomplish by being so bloody blatant to our perpetual explanation to you?[/quote] Because we are potential notches on her spirtitual belt and nothing more. She is in possession of the trvth and is not interested in listening to our explanations.
jeffpugh Posted June 17, 2007 Posted June 17, 2007 (edited) Is that all? It sounds lame to me. I listen to what my atheist friend has to say and try and work off his reasoning. It just helps to know EXACTLY where he's coming from. Not where I THINK he's coming from. Edited June 17, 2007 by Sacred Music Man
Starets Posted June 17, 2007 Posted June 17, 2007 I think so, based on my observations. And yes it IS lame But when you are in full possession of the trvth, you dont need to listen to the other person as you already know what they believe. This is the pride that leads to destruction, and the boastful spirit that precedes the fall. It certainly is not the humility to which we as Christians are called.
jswranch Posted June 21, 2007 Posted June 21, 2007 [quote name='Sacred Music Man' post='1297049' date='Jun 16 2007, 09:11 PM']WHY? Why does this happen? What is the reasoning behind this stupidity! Budge! [b]I[/b] am now questioning you. Why do you not listen to us and what are you trying to accomplish by being so bloody blatant to our perpetual explanation to you?[/quote] Satan causes one's eyes to be closed so they cannot see the truth. Satan causes one's ears to be closed so they cannot hear the truth. Satan hardens one's heart because they cling to anger, self-righteousness, love of self and unforgiveness rather than dying to self. Satan confuses one so they cannot come to the truth. This is the answer to your question of why.
dairygirl4u2c Posted June 22, 2007 Posted June 22, 2007 good points. and if it's okay to make statues, and not misconstrue what's stated in the commandemnts, then it might be okay to bow and it's not misconstruing if it's not worshipping. thought... i think you could argue that graven images are those that are meant to be bowed in front of. if that's the case, then it's okay to have statues etc as long as you don't bow in front, regardless of even if you don't worship.
jeffpugh Posted June 23, 2007 Posted June 23, 2007 I dunno. What if the bowing is an act of respect for what the image represents?
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