Islam According To The Qur'an/hadeeths Interpreted By:

[mortify]

Peace Reza,

No offense, but someone who is looking into the Yusuf Ali commentary obviously isn't a scholar, and some statements in that quote sound iffy. Why would a Muslim have to put themselves in a "[i]strictly 'muslim' bubble[/i]"? And when they said the verse was "[i]written with the influence of emotion[/i]" are they referring to Allah?

Your friend describing Ibn Kathir as emotional and aggressive/defensive based off "recollection" wont convince me to ignore Ibn Kathir. Sure, his writing is hard to swallow at times, but that's because he's being honest.

And again, how do you fit your friend's interpretation with the fact that Umar threw out a scribe simply for being Christian? The scribe was obviously not a threat, and Umar quoted surah 5:51 as justification for his action.

[quote]Even if I was to put myself in a strictly "muslim" bubble this verse wouldnt work as it is contradicted by Dawah which teaches to befriend disbelievers and invite them to "the truth"[/quote]

That's simply not true. One can be kind and just (as one aya says) and still not befriend the kafiroon (as another aya says), all while conducting Dawah. I've personally known Muslims who follow the Quranic injunction not to have Christian and Jewish friends, and they conducted dawah just fine.

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote]I think the ayah is 5/51 but [url="http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=5&tid=14082"]the one you mentioned[/url]

"Allah forbids His believing servants from having Jews and Christians as friends, because they are the enemies of Islam and its people, may Allah curse them. Allah then states that they are friends of each other and He gives a warning threat to those who do this..."

In context (the meaning of freinds, awliya, as translated):

(Then they will become) meaning, the hypocrites who gave their friendship to the Jews and Christians, will become, (for what they have been keeping as a secret in themselves) of allegiances, (regretful, ) for their friendship with the Jews and Christians which did not benefit them or protect them from any harm. Rather, it was nothing but harm, as Allah exposed their true reality to His faithful servants in this life, although they tried to conceal it. When the signs that exposed their hypocrisy were compiled against them, their matter became clear to Allah's faithful servants. So the believers were amazed at these hypocrites who pretended to be believers, swearing to their faithfulness, yet their claims were all lies and deceit.

So the meaning is in context of allegiences and vying for protection via these Kufar as opposed to taking them as mere friends:

(saying: "We fear lest some misfortune of a disaster may befall us.") They thus offer this excuse for their friendship and allegiances to the disbelievers, saying that they fear that the disbelievers might defeat the Muslims, so they want to be in favor with the Jews and Christians, to use this favor for their benefit in that eventuality!

The meaning is further explained on tafsir of latter verses which is prohibiting close freindship. Rasulallah (saw) said that Abu Bakr (ra) would be his bosom freind, and the Muslims are prohibited from being attached to Kufar in this way as explained (2 sections down):

[url="http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=5&tid=14148"]"The Prohibition of Being Loyal Friends with Disbelievers"[/url]

Ma'Salam, in light of the context (of the next parts of the tafsir), the only way that tafsir can be attributed to Ibn Kathir (rahimullah) is if you only look at part of what he said.[/quote]

[OneForTruth]

I have a couple of questions that kind of go together...

Does Allah forgive sin and is he just/righteous in doing so?

Thank You.

Edited June 19, 2007 by OneForTruth

[Vincent Vega]

[quote][i]004.088 [/i]
[b]YUSUFALI:[/b] Why should ye be divided into two parties about the Hypocrites? Allah hath upset them for their (evil) deeds. Would ye guide those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way? For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the Way, never shalt thou find the Way.
[b]PICKTHAL:[/b] What aileth you that ye are become two parties regarding the hypocrites, when Allah cast them back (to disbelief) because of what they earned? Seek ye to guide him whom Allah hath sent astray? He whom Allah sendeth astray, for him thou (O MUhammad) canst not find a road.
[b]SHAKIR:[/b] What is the matter with you, then, that you have become two parties about the hypocrites, while Allah has made them return (to unbelief) for what they have earned? Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to err? And whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall by no means find a way for him.
[i]004.089 [/i]
[b]YUSUFALI:[/b] They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden).[b] But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them[/b]; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks;-
[b]PICKTHAL:[/b] They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; [b]if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them[/b], and choose no friend nor helper from among them,
[b]SHAKIR:[/b] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; [b]but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them,[/b] and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
[i]004.090 [/i]
[b]YUSUFALI:[/b] Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).
[b]PICKTHAL:[/b] Except those who seek refuge with a people between whom and you there is a covenant, or (those who) come unto you because their hearts forbid them to make war on you or make war on their own folk. Had Allah willed He could have given them power over you so that assuredly they would have fought you. So, if they hold aloof from you and wage not war against you and offer you peace, Allah alloweth you no way against them.
[b]SHAKIR:[/b] Except those who reach a people between whom and you there is an alliance, or who come to you, their hearts shrinking from fighting you or fighting their own people; and if Allah had pleased, He would have given them power over you, so that they should have certainly fought you; therefore if they withdraw from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not given you a way against them.[/quote]

Edited August 19, 2011 by USAirwaysIHS

[mortify]

Yes, orthodox Islamic doctrine instrinsically encourages violence

Edited August 19, 2011 by mortify

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1313727360' post='2291146']
Yes, orthodox Islamic doctrine instrinsically encourages violence
[/quote]

that's not true... if that were true then that would be the concensus at Al-Azhar but it's not. It's quite the opposite.

[mortify]

[quote name='RezaMikhaeil' timestamp='1313729343' post='2291159']
that's not true... if that were true then that would be the concensus at Al-Azhar but it's not. It's quite the opposite.
[/quote]

What are you referring to exactly? All Schools of Islamic legal thought state that waging war against non threatening nation is permissible to spread Islam. The Quran explicitly says to fight unbelievers until they accept Islam. Because fighting is violent and Islam endorses it, it is intrinsically violent.

[Vincent Vega]

He can't talk to you. He;s on vaycay.