Mortal Sin Mitigated By Habitual Behavior

[Groo the Wanderer]

Fred has a passion for food. A raving love and joy for food of any kind. Problem is he doesn't stop eating when he is no longer hungry. Also doesn't stop eating when full. Because of Fred's momma, he has grown up with a compulsion to clean his plate, no matter how much is on there.

Fred also tends to eat/snack when he gets bored, upset, or nervous. Needless to say, Fred has a weight problem. He wishes to stop overeating, but cannot seem to break the habit.

Objectively, this is the sin of gluttony and is serious...grounds for a mortal sin.

Subjectively, he has a couple of factors:
1. he was conditioned to clean his plate since childhood
2. overeating has become a habit and he hasn't learned portion-control
3. the snacking is habitual and almost an autonomic response

Here the the debate points:

1. Is Fred guilty of the mortal sin of gluttony?

2. Do the subjective factors mitigate the sin of gluttony such that even though Fred must go to confession, does he still need to avoid receiving the Eucharist?


3....2.....1....DEBATE!!

[aalpha1989]

Good questions good questions...i've turned them over in my own head a few times myself. I believe that in this case Fred does have mitigating circumstances and has not commited a mortal sin, given that he is honestly attempting conversion. also i believe that he must confess it in confession but doesnt necessarily have to abstain from eucharist. he may abstain if his conscience tells him he should, but i dont think he is required to abstain. the act itself is still grevious and should be confessed. he should also make attempts to stop his behavior and not just give in. If he just gave in and never tried to stop, just told himself "well, self, i'm hooked on gluttony for life. i've tried to stop enough times and i know i can never stop myself. oh well i'll just live with the hand i've been dealt", then there would be a problem. in fact this might even be the 'sin against the holy spirit' that Jesus talked about, given that he never changed course from this acceptance of evil.

quick recap

if fred is attempting conversion he is not in a state of mortal sin
he may receive the eucharist but his conscience may decide otherwise
he still must confess this serious sin

does that sound right? this is just what i've kinda figured in my head...

[jckinsman]

Does Fred know that his gluttony is a mortal sin? A part of mortal sin is full knowledge! If he does,he must confess it ,as just that. Then fred must go on and fight the good fight with his own sin. It will be his cross to bare. I would have to say it sounds like "the sins of the father" and the cycle needs to broken with Fred. "Subjective factors" insinuate that he may not be in full knowledge,even when one tells him that he is. There are alot of factors that play a part here.
Full Knowledge,Full consent, and the sin is mortal, and you choose to do it any way. Its the Full knowledge part you question because of his up bringing and what he was taught.( almost impossible to know unless you are fred) Although Once, as an adult, he becomes aware of the true sin of gluttony,and why it can be so sinful,he is then held accountable for his sin. At that point he makes his own choices in dealing with it. He should not receive unless he confesses. Confession to me though is so grace filled.When I sin as hard as it is to say what I may have done,I long to do it, for that peaceful grace I get from our Lord, knowing he forgives all IF you are asking. You pick up your cross and walk with Christ. JC

Edited June 8, 2007 by jckinsman

[homeschoolmom]

Good topic.

[jckinsman]

Yes, it is isn't it?............ Isn't this the truth! I look at people with all kinds of problems and such, but the one to do with food is just alittle more difficult. It's everywhere and you must eat, everyday, properly to lead a healthy life! That's alot tougher then you think! Food addiction of any kind can be brutal! Another thing to add in the "big book of prayers" for people!

[reyb]

[indent]Is gluttony really a mortal sin? Is it Roman Catholic doctrine? Can you please tell me where is it in Catechism or any other Catholic Church document? [/indent]

[N/A Gone]

I think you would want a proper def also.

[quote]A sin against temperance, it is either the excessive and uncontrolled desire for food or drink, or the extreme and excessive use of food or drink. Gluttony also includes the excessive liking for exquisite food and drink and fastidiousness about food and drink. Excessive drinking is venially sinful if it causes partial loss of reason, and it is mortally sinful if it causes complete loss of reason.[/quote]

OSV

Problem is the word "excessive" which is a subjective word.

[reyb]

[indent]I did not see the source document. May I know where it is written? Because I want to know whether it is a doctrine in Roman Catholic Church or not.[/indent]

[chelsea]

[quote name='reyb' post='1291267' date='Jun 9 2007, 07:33 AM'][indent]I did not see the source document. May I know where it is written? Because I want to know whether it is a doctrine in Roman Catholic Church or not.[/indent][/quote]


its one of the seven deadly sins. (gluttony, sloth, greed, etc). I dont know where it would be in a document, but its one of the seven deadly sins.



Fred needs help. I dont think its necessarily a mortal sin, because he is addicted to food and its not really his fault. He needs help to get his eating habits under control. He can receive the Eucharist (if he's fasted for an hour!)

[johnnydigit]

imo it's a sin. replace "eating" with any other sin, say sex. we feel sympathetic, but it's still a sin, and i think knowing this would help him to repent. it will give him more incentive to convert, instead of, "well i've been brought up this way, so i can't help it." i'm sure God will factor this in and grant him mercy if he sincerely is wanting to convert.

in regards to over-eating, it really hit me when i first did a fast with some friends for easter i think it was. 2 or 3 days i think, and when i finally was able to eat, i didn't even eat that much. this really made me realize how much i don't need to eat in order to survive. since then i've learned about fasting and prayer, and how important it is. i don't mind not eating at all now, and i can of course still make it through the day. i've been losing weight and getting leaner with excercising, but now i need to worry about going overboard so i need to balance it all. plus of course trying to not use it as a tool for weight loss - it is for prayer and sacrifice, and the others are just side benefits.

fyi fasting increases prayer, humility (very important!), sacrifice for others, mental ability, health (in many, many ways scientifically). so many benefits, it's almost genius, but not easy so takes practice.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

cappie responded to a question in the Q&A forum a while back about gluttony and stated that it is only a grave matter when it endangers life:
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=48699&hl=gluttony"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?s...amp;hl=gluttony[/url]

[Groo the Wanderer]

But when to determine if it is placing one's life in danger? Is it when Fred has 2-3 extra chins? Is it when Fred can't see his feet when he looks down? Or is it when Fred's doctor says he's ready for a double bypass?

yikes

[Norseman82]

I have a feeling that this is really about something else and not gluttony.....because I have seen the cathechism address this point regarding another sinful habitual behavior.

[jeffpugh]

To be honest, Groo, I think it Fred needs help regardless. If tell tale signs such as chins and disappearing feet occur, it is safe to say the person is on the road to dangerous consumption.

[Groo the Wanderer]

Heheh Fred is hypothetical. Just a handy name. His friend is Barney I picked gluttony cause I hadn't seen it on da boards yet (sorry Cappie). Guess it could be envy, though I can't think of a way that could be habitual.

'K Lemme throw some gas on the fire, since this debate is going tame too soon.

Fred is not a young pup, as some have asked. Let's say Fred is in his mid-fifties. Already has the chins and the gut and the badonkadonk (LUV that commercial!) Does this make any bearing on the habitual nature of the eating?