Question For Those That Wear Mantillas

[TotusTuusMaria]

J.M.J.

First, I would like to say this is not a debate thread. I just have a little question for all those women out there who wear mantillas.

I have been discerning wearing one for sometime, and two weeks ago after prayer and reading the arguments on here about it all I decided that it was God's will that I should. So, I have.

I am going to a Steubenville youth conference in a couple weeks. It is just one of the regular Steubenville conferences. There is going to be over 2,000 kids packed in a big room where there will be lots of talks, Mass, adoration, and music. So since I have been wearing a mantilla to Mass and adoration I should wear one there too, right? Well, when is it an appropriate time to wear it and when it not? Should I just put it on when Mass and adoration are about to begin? What about all those other times we pray as a group?

And for a side note... if your attending a talk given in a Church should you wear your mantilla since your in the Church?

[jiyoung]

First of all, yay I had a similar experience, where reading people's arguments for it slowly convinced me of its necessity and that it was God's will for me as well. I know it's really hard--for me it's always edifying to see other women in veils or to talk about it with others. It helps me know I'm not all alone in this.

For me personally, I always wear one when I'm in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament whether it's Mass or not, unless I'm just passing through the church--I used to work in the sacristy so I would have to just walk through the church. If I had a hoodie on I'd flip up my hood, but towards the end I would just go on through. And I've worn it during talks if Jesus was there. But, considering that it can be a distraction, and because prayer isn't necessarily my intent, I'm trying to think up a way to improvise some other head covering--a hat or a scarf or something. Also, my friend is getting married and while she appreciates my veil would really like to be the only person in a veil, so to respect her wishes I'm either going to wear a hat or a scarf.

I wasn't wearing a veil at the time that I would go to Steubenville conferences or praise nights or whatever else, but some of my friends who wear a veil and do these things (more notably the FOPs at Franciscan) would wear their veils when Jesus was present as they usually would--so if the priest processed in with Jesus, on went the veil. I've always seen the mantilla as something I wore when Jesus was physically present in the room, so I wouldn't personally opt to wear it if we were, say, praying the rosary and Jesus wasn't in the room. But you'd be hard-pressed to find someone wearing a veil at a Steubenville conference, so if you want to be less conspicuous you could go with a hat or scarf that you could wear all day.

[cathoholic_anonymous]

As jiyoung says, I wear my headcovering only if I am in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament. I am new to the whole business and have found it very rewarding, in a quiet sort of way. I worried too much about distracting people when I began wearing the mantilla, but with the exception of a few peculiar looks at the Sign of Peace (which I may even have been imagining) I haven't generated any reaction at all. People have more to think about at Mass and Adoration than what is on your head. I expect the same is true at Steubenville.

All the same, I have decided to reserve my mantilla for Sundays and special feasts, using a solid scarf for the rest of the time. I prefer my scarves. They make more sense to me culturally, after life in the Middle East, and they don't itch my ears quite so much. Remember that there is nothing intrinsically holy about the mantilla as such - it's just pretty Spanish custom - and find a covering that is practical for you.

[RezaMikhaeil]

Obviously I can't speak from personal experience but I can speak from my wife's experience, since she sought guidence from me regarding the issue of it. She doesn't wear a Mantillas, as it's a spanish custom and not as popular amongst orthodox [thou it's gaining popularity more in america].

Her experience went with generally finding her place, as a Christian woman and her idenitity as such. She doesn't just wear a scarf inside of church but also outside of church, as this was the early custom.

What impacted her significantly to see the significance of it in church was St. John Chrysostom's words:

[quote]St. John Chrysostom once wrote that women should cover because of the Angels, "The angels are present here…Open the eyes of faith and look upon this sight. For if the very air is filled with angels, how much more so the Church! ...Hear the Apostle teaching this, when he bids the women to cover their heads with a veil because of the presence of the angels." [from the Feast of the Ascension][/quote]

Given that it's an older custom, that has for the most part been liberalized and disappeared, it's very much a challenge for women that chose to revert back to this custom, but rather then be afraid of it, my advice [as my wife's would be] is to be bold about it, not to allow yourself to be prideful [stay humble] but follow your heart on such matters.

Reza

[chelsea]

[quote name='TotusTuusMaria' post='1290758' date='Jun 8 2007, 05:18 AM']J.M.J.

First, I would like to say this is not a debate thread. I just have a little question for all those women out there who wear mantillas.

I have been discerning wearing one for sometime, and two weeks ago after prayer and reading the arguments on here about it all I decided that it was God's will that I should. So, I have.

I am going to a Steubenville youth conference in a couple weeks. It is just one of the regular Steubenville conferences. There is going to be over 2,000 kids packed in a big room where there will be lots of talks, Mass, adoration, and music. So since I have been wearing a mantilla to Mass and adoration I should wear one there too, right? Well, when is it an appropriate time to wear it and when it not? Should I just put it on when Mass and adoration are about to begin? What about all those other times we pray as a group?

And for a side note... if your attending a talk given in a Church should you wear your mantilla since your in the Church?[/quote]

I, too, have been discerning wearing a mantilla...i think that God really wants me to.

anyway... IF you feel called to wear it at your conference, do it. I'm going to a steuby conference as well this summer (i went last summer too). I think it would be a HUGE witness to your faith. I didnt really carry around a purse or a bag, but my chaperones did...maybe you could bring it and ask one of them to hold it for you until mass/adoration. Mantilla's are reserved to be worn in the presence of the Eucharist. You shouldnt wear it during talks, small group, etc. I would just slip in on during mass and adoration, and slip it off right after. you asked about praying in a small group- if you are praying in a church, then its appropriate. If you're praying outside then it isnt necessary. Also, you asked about attending a talk in the church...i dont know the answer to that one, but i probably wouldnt because it might be distracting for the other teens at the talk.

Props for wanting to do this!

<3+ be holy!

[Totus Tuus]

As the Church does not require women to wear a mantilla at this time, it is up to your own discernment when you wear it. Personally I wear one when I am in the Presence of God (in a church, participating in Mass, during adoration, etc).

[ofpheritup]

I was editing and something happened . This is the rest of the message.

I belong to a group on Yahoo of ladies who cover, with everything imaginable. We don't all wear the same thing.
It is obviously up to the woman's taste. There are many, many sources out there, if you would like to PM me I will suggest some to you. Also if you would like the name of the Yahoo group that I belong to PM me.

One thing I do not get into is "Who's right the ones who cover or the ones who don't?"
It is not my place to judge. You see that is a ploy that Satan likes to use.

With the Yahoo group that I belong to that is NOT a topic of conversation.
Not everyone that is a member of the support group covers all the time.
We do not criticize each others choices, it isn't allowed. That isn't what we are there for.

I need a nap. I had the first half of this message done and posted it and it disappeared.
So here we go .....again. Part 1

I almost "clicked off" the site today without looking at all the topics. I'm glad that I checked.

I have started "covering" all the time, at home, when I go out, everywhere.
The reason I started was Scriptural but also because our world needs a witness.
They need a reminder of a "spiritual reality." That "this" isn't all there is.

I love seeing the Mennonite ladies with their prayer caps.
I hope now that I cover I am offering the same kind of witness.
I am trying to be a "Lighthouse for Jesus."

There was more but I just edited myself.
OOH, painful.

My understanding is that the Church never said to stop wearing mantilla's.
I am 49 and I would have remembered that.

Edited June 8, 2007 by ofpheritup

[chelsea]

[quote name='ofpheritup' post='1290829' date='Jun 8 2007, 11:47 AM']My understanding is that the Church never said to stop wearing mantilla's.
I am 49 and I would have remembered that.[/quote]

The Church never did say that women could stop. With V2, a bishop was asked what the status of mantillas would be. He replied that it was not being discussed. An american reporter took that as "ok, you dont have to!" and printed it in the newspaper. The church did not correct the mistake. Now, when asked, Church officials say that women should follow the tradition of the church.


but im not saying that you should or shouldnt! sorry for hijacking the thread!

<3+

Edited June 8, 2007 by chelsea

[kafka]

what is a mantilla?

[mortify]

God bless all you ladies, much props to ya!

[chelsea]

[quote name='kafka' post='1290932' date='Jun 8 2007, 02:04 PM']what is a mantilla?[/quote]

a mantilla is a headcovering that women were required to wear to mass before Vatican II. It is a hispanic tradition i believe. Before vatican II women were required to keep their hair covered while in mass or at church.

[img]http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/pict/1047500623964040_0.jpg[/img]


this is a longer one...many are smaller

[kafka]

oh ok a headcovering. I wasnt familiar with the term mantilla. Thanks Chelsea

[cathoholic_anonymous]

It's a specific type of headcovering. Spanish and lacy. I have one that is almost identical to the white one in the picture (or I did, until I gave it away this afternoon) and a slightly smaller black one.

The mantilla emerges on Sundays. This is the Saudi scarf that I use most often for daily Mass. It is much more comfortable than a lacy thing that needs clipping to my hair. I may find a slightly fancier solid scarf and use it for Mass instead of the mantilla.

[img]http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c359/parnassus/VickyShoop.jpg[/img]

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='chelsea' post='1290895' date='Jun 8 2007, 12:23 PM']The Church never did say that women could stop. With V2, a bishop was asked what the status of mantillas would be. He replied that it was not being discussed. An american reporter took that as "ok, you dont have to!" and printed it in the newspaper. The church did not correct the mistake. Now, when asked, Church officials say that women should follow the tradition of the church.
but im not saying that you should or shouldnt! sorry for hijacking the thread!

<3+[/quote]

I do not believe it was ever required. Perhaps I am wrong here. Just this week, I listened to an interview on EWTN concerning this matter, and it was stated that mantillas, while a noble practice, are not required.

I wear one, and I love seeing other people wear one. So I'm not trying to say that it should be discouraged; only, I am not sure exactly what Church documents [i]say[/i], explicitly, on this matter.

Who's up for finding out?

Edited June 8, 2007 by Totus Tuus

[jiyoung]

It was required by the 1917 Code of Canon Law, which only really confirmed as law what had been held as required by tradition (small t) beforehand. But the 1983 Code made no explicit mention of it, so there's debate now whether it's required or not--most canon lawyers say that the Code no longer requires it, but some argue that unless the law was specifically abrogated, which it wasn't, it still is in force. It's interesting because the law also required that men take off any headcoverings when entering a church and that's not disputed--men are still supposed to take their hats off--but there's a huge debacle with women's headcoverings.

That probably has to do with the feminazis boycotting veils in the 60s, though--from the 60s onwards, NOW/etc advocated things like veil burning and stuff to "protest the oppression" that veils symbolized to them, not understanding that it's not a sign of submission to men but to God. But it's not like they ever listen, anyway.

So now basically most people say that it's not required but it's still allowed, and regardless of whether it's required by canon law or not it's still a beautiful devotion. The thing that I'm glad about is that it's now a more sincere devotion because most women choose to wear it after much prayer and discernment, instead of just wearing it "because we have to."