I Am Despairing

[Lil Red]

my point is this: if you can wear nice clothing to Mass, you should. if you have the means and the wherewithal to do so, you should.

[Deus te Amat]

okay... but when all the skirts and nice black pants ae in the wash... its okay to wear jeans? sorry!

[Thy Geekdom Come]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1292917' date='Jun 11 2007, 01:00 PM']my point is this: if you can wear nice clothing to Mass, you should. if you have the means and the wherewithal to do so, you should.[/quote]
Ditto.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='prose' post='1292867' date='Jun 11 2007, 01:10 PM']I know how you feel! I have people walk in after all the readings, go up for communion, and leave. I can't believe it sometimes.

A lot of stuff I am okay with letting slide, but sometimes I want to yell "HEY!! This is MASS!!! What are you thinking??!?!?".

I get frustrated that people sit in the adoration chapel and pray rosaries all through Mass, and don't even listen to the homily, readings or anything.

But, one parishioner at a time. That is what I remind myself. Just one. Teach one youth, and they will teach their parents. Provide one example, and SOMEONE will follow.

I will pray for you. [/quote]
The parish here that has an adoration chapel has it closed during Mass (at least that's what my understanding of the sign on the door is...) so that you can't sit in there during Mass.

And I totally agree with the one parishoner at a time, thing. My family sits in the front row (always have, since we were little, so we could see) and there's another family that always sits next to us. The front row does not have kneelers. For the longest time, we just didn't kneel, because of that. Slowly, our family started kneeling...when we started kneeling, the other family started kneeling. It was actually kind of cool to realize how we were affecting them.

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1292894' date='Jun 11 2007, 01:44 PM']there are no indults in my diocese. there are no TLMs in my diocese (at least that are inside the Catholic church). my diocese is extremely liberal (spots here and there that aren't, though).


what bothers me is this:

if dressing up doesn't matter...
if coming on time doesn't matter...
if staying until Mass is done doesn't matter...
if you don't believe in the Eucharist...
if you don't agree with the Catholic Church on much of anything...

...why bother coming at all?

[/quote]
I don't remember if it was something I read, or a recent homily, but a priest mentioned the fact that if you were going pretty much ANYWHERE else (Especially a friends house), you would NEVER be as late as people are to Mass and you would never be as disrespectful as some people are, and we really should remember that it is God's House!

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1292917' date='Jun 11 2007, 02:00 PM']my point is this: if you can wear nice clothing to Mass, you should. if you have the means and the wherewithal to do so, you should.[/quote]
Yes, I'd say there are some far worse things than jeans...like certain skirts or shorts that tend to appear in the summertime...

[farglefeezlebut]

There's a bit in St. Therese's autobiography where she describes anopther sister making an irritating noise during prayers. She imagined that the noise was a beautiful concert and offered it to the Lord.

Jesus is in the Mass, whether people realise it or not. Just be there to be with Jesus and ignore the stupidity. Close your eyes if it helps and only open them at elevation.

[jiyoung]

My old church used to be like that. It's why I left, but I was in a position where leaving is an option. I still wonder if it was the right thing to do--I'm young and because of the way my old church is run (parish council wields more authority than the priest, plus just plain old Korean culture), my input as a youngster would be shot down, and even if they were to consider what I said, they would brush me off because "we can't all be as holy as you, Clara..." It was so frustrating! And it wasn't like I was telling them to do something SO UNTHINKABLE, but just those things that you mentioned--be a little more reverent before, during, and after Mass, and things like that. blah. But I feel like I still could've made some impact had I stayed.

I personally dress up for Sunday Mass, but not usually for daily Mass, since I'm usually coming from somewhere else or something. But I am always dressed modestly and cleanly, since that's how I dress anyway.

I think you can set an example as youth minister, since you're in a leadership capacity and can be a role model for the youth at least, and you can take opportunities in YG to teach proper Mass behavior and the actual meaning of Corpus Christi, since it sounds like the priest isn't really doing that...

[dUSt]

Some things you may or may not be able to do:

Include little catechesis flyers or sections in the bulletin. A different topic each week. (I hope that phatmass will be able to help with this in the near future with pre-made printable bulletin inserts)

Start up a group that prays the rosary immediately before or after mass, which will definitely cut down the social chatter scene inside the sanctuary.

If your priest doesn't care, then he shouldn't have a problem with you doing these things. If he's simply lazy, then you'll be helping him out. If he's opposed to these things, then I'd take it up with the bishop.

[Jaime]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1292917' date='Jun 11 2007, 12:00 PM']my point is this: if you can wear nice clothing to Mass, you should. if you have the means and the wherewithal to do so, you should.[/quote]

That's a great point Ma'am.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='Deus_te_Amat' post='1292920' date='Jun 11 2007, 01:02 PM']okay... but when all the skirts and nice black pants ae in the wash... its okay to wear jeans? sorry![/quote]
It's not that it's sinful to wear jeans. It's just that showing care for your attire demonstrates respect for the person you're going to spend time with.


This kind of thing bothers me as well ... but I'm in a much less influential place in my parish than you are in yours. I think dUSt's suggestions are great, and there are, I'm sure, other ways you can encourage reverence and respect as well, I'm sure. Perhaps start praying for God to show you how best you can encourage a better overall attitude. These things can change, and perhaps you have been brought to the position you are in for such a time as this.

Don't despair ... God is always working, even when things appear the blackest.

[Seven77]

I feel the same way...my parish is very 'liberal'. It's very sad and I just can't stand it. My EWTN schedules get dissed--indirectly by "disappearing" the next week. Social justice seems to be pitted against orthodoxy as if the two were opposed to each other. Love is often misunderstood. Sometimes i think i annoy our priests. Admittedly, a lot of the time they annoy me. I need to pray for them.

I'm not very good at it but I try to offer these very things and my bitterness at them as sacrifices in union with His at the Great Amen. But i do complain too. I try to think--maybe He needs me. He needs good friends to love Him here...He wants me to pray for His poor children. "His heart was moved with pity b/c they were like sheep without a shepard". If I won't who here at my parish will? Is this part of His plan, why He allows me to be in a wheelchair and on a ventilator, often feeling a kind of loneliness? To be His Heart on the Cross amid the indifferent onlookers?

We are assured of this--- [b]the devil is going down!!![/b]

Maybe we should start a spiritual movement of all of us who are kind of stuck in liberal parishes?

[Sojourner]

Kudos to people who stay in parishes like these despite their frustrations.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1293092' date='Jun 11 2007, 05:02 PM']Kudos to people who stay in parishes like these despite their frustrations.[/quote]
Amen.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='dUSt' post='1293028' date='Jun 11 2007, 01:36 PM']Some things you may or may not be able to do:

Include little catechesis flyers or sections in the bulletin. A different topic each week. (I hope that phatmass will be able to help with this in the near future with pre-made printable bulletin inserts)

Start up a group that prays the rosary immediately before or after mass, which will definitely cut down the social chatter scene inside the sanctuary.

If your priest doesn't care, then he shouldn't have a problem with you doing these things. If he's simply lazy, then you'll be helping him out. If he's opposed to these things, then I'd take it up with the bishop.[/quote]
i will have to see about the bulletin thing

someone tried to do the rosary before or after the masses (i think it was the KCs) and it was promptly shot down by the priest. he does have a problem with it. and unfortunately, we are without a bishop and the administrator prefers not to get involved in these situations.

[MissScripture]

Out of curiosity, what would one do if the Bishop had a problem with it?

[misereremi]

Prayers, lil Red. I was having similar bitter feelings about my parish- it's not liberal but people can be quite irreverent out of habit- most people do dress up big time, but they're not going to confession, do not believe in the real presence, and chat a lot after mass. And don't come to the pro-life walks, the talks on icons that the priest gives, our youth events, etc. etc. I usually hold it down because I don't want to sound like I'm judging, when I'm the biggest sinner I know.

But it was getting to me, so last week I had a bit of rant to the parish priest about how I felt this was a let down. And then the following Sunday it was amazing...the priest who gave the homily said that the mass intention was for the parishioners to be more reverent! We had a period of exposition of the Blessed Sacrament before the final blessing, and nobody left in a rush. And afterwards so many people turned up to the Corpus Christi procession through town...(and not just older people) I couldn't believe it. It was so moving Sometimes we all just need to be told.

I myself need to be more reverent by making an effort to bring a change of clothes for the weekday masses. I didn't realise I was being irreverent in my sneakers and tracksuit , but I do now.
God bless

[mortify]

[quote]what bothers me is this:

if dressing up doesn't matter...
if coming on time doesn't matter...
if staying until Mass is done doesn't matter...
if you don't believe in the Eucharist...
if you don't agree with the Catholic Church on much of anything...

...why bother coming at all?[/quote]

I agree with you, I think some people still see the benefit in going and raising children in a religious environment even if they don't agree with everything the Church teaches.

Now it's interesting that you're a youth minister, that's a wonderful vocation, you alone can guide so many souls closer to Jesus. Have you ever talked to the youth about these issues? If you can convey the reality of the Mass, the Eucharist, and the Presence of Christ in the tabernacle, they'll realize sacredness of the Church and that alone can affect many of the problems you see. If you could come to mass as a group nicely dressed, showing reverence, and genuflecting you could make quite the impression on other people. I personally wouldn't worry if someone considers you a "pharisee," or "rigid," or what not, as long as the intention is to guide others by your own good example. Getting like minded people involved would be great as well, particularly if you could get this group to teach CCD.

Anyway, these are just some ideas, I don't know if they're practical, what do you have in mind?

Btw, does being a youth minister limit you to that parish? Are there conservative novus ordo parishes around?

Edited June 12, 2007 by mortify

[Socrates]

At the risk of this being the kind of post you said you'd delete, things are overall pretty good at my parish (though it's one of those "evil ultra-conservative" parishes), and the priests have not been afraid to speak out about "controversial things" such as the need for modesty in clothing at mass, the sin of contraception, and the necessity of Confession of mortal sins before receiving Holy Communion.

I think more priests need be unafraid to speak out about such things, and not be so worried about upsetting people or "driving people away."
If the priest does not teach on such things, it is unlikely many of the parishioners will know the truth otherwise. And while some people may get upset, or just not listen, I think in the long run this can have more of an effect than you'd think. Some people are just ignorant, and need to hear the truth. And people will ultimately respect someone who stands up for truth even when it is unpopular, than someone who is spineless and lets himself get pushed around by others.

But if the priest is encouraging irreverence, and there's no bishop, I'm not sure what the solution is, other than to pray, and try to set a good example yourself.

[Ash Wednesday]

I'm praying for you, Lil Red, and anyone else that has this problem. I've been moving around so much I don't have a regular parish but I know how you feel. When you see someone that seems indifferent, pray for them. They need our prayers, myself included. I've suffered a lot of trials in my life in the last few years and with the exception of a few pockets of consolation here and there, I feel like I'm wafting through my spiritual life in a massive cloud of frustrating ambivalence and religious indifference, when I know there is a greater source of joy out there but often feel weighed down and just floating along trying to keep my head above water. The only thing that keeps me going is the fact that stopping and sinking isn't a desirable option. God knows I might be one of those people that more reverent people are irritated by.

Anyway prayers again. One way or another, things will be all right.

Edited June 12, 2007 by Ash Wednesday

[Ora et Labora]

[quote name='Lil Red' post='1292851' date='Jun 11 2007, 12:49 PM']"I'm glad I attend 'such and such' church and we don't have these problems"[/quote]

i would personally like to know what's wrong with saying this.

[cmotherofpirl]

Hugs and prayers dearie.
I think you are suffering a slow martyrdom[ and time off of purgatory ] for being there. Never doubt that you are making a difference just by being faithful and modeling faithfulness for the kids. Pray for the soul of your pastor, he is gonna need all the help he can get, when he has to account to St Peter.