How This Really Works?

[Kirisutodo333]

[quote name='reyb' post='1296051' date='Jun 15 2007, 03:03 PM'][indent]Because as far as I know, according to what I learn here. Roman Catholic Church was the Church of Christ, entrust by Jesus to Peter. How about those churches mentioned by Paul in his letters?[/indent][/quote]

What about the churches mentioned in Paul's letters? Are they what exactly?

[reyb]

[indent][quote name='Kirisutodo333' post='1296076' date='Jun 15 2007, 02:27 PM']What about the churches mentioned in Paul's letters? Are they what exactly?[/quote][/indent]

[indent]Why they never mentioned the doctrine of the Holy Trinity? Who leads them?[/indent]

[reyb]

[quote name='Kirisutodo333' post='1296073' date='Jun 15 2007, 02:25 PM']In the Council of Constantinople, the Trinity was given its formal recognition as one God in three persons of the same substance (homousios). All three are one, all three fully divine. This was in 381 A.D. At this time the bishop of Rome was St. Damascus I.[/quote]

[indent]Thank You. I will try to see it.[/indent]

[Kirisutodo333]

[quote name='reyb' post='1296086' date='Jun 15 2007, 03:43 PM'][indent][/indent]

[indent]Why they never mentioned the doctrine of the Holy Trinity? Who leads them?[/indent][/quote]

Because the doctrine of the Trinity was formally formulated in 381. But early Christians spoke of the Trinity. For example, our beloved St. Paul:

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the holy Spirit be with all of you." - 2 Corin. 13:13

Who leads the churches? The Apostolic church was led by Jesus' Apostles. After the apostolic period, the bishops became the leaders of the local Christian communities.

[Katholikos]

Reyb, in answer to your question as to why St. Paul was not Pope after St. Peter:

St. Paul was taken as a prisoner to Rome in A.D. 59 or 59. During his imprisonment, he wrote Phillipians, Ephesians, Colossians, and Philemon. He was later tried, possibly before Nero, and released, probably in A.D. 63. Many scholars believe he went to Spain and returned to Rome where he wrote Hebrews. He again left Rome with Timothy and visited Crete. There he founded a Church and appointed Titus as bishop over it. From Crete he went to Ephesus, where he left Timothy as bishop to rule over the Church there. He went on to Macedonia, and from there he wrote his first letter to Timothy. Crossing the Aegean again, he visited Troas, Ephesus, and Miletis and returned to Corinth. Perhaps from Ephesus he wrote to Titus, asking him to join him at Nicopolis in Epirus, across from Italy, where he had decided to spend the winter. These two letters were written probably between the spring and autumn of A.D. 66. The following spring St. Paul was arrested and again imprisoned in Rome, where he write his second letter to Timothy. As a Roman citizen, he was beheaded three miles from Rome on the Ostian Way, at a place now called [i]Tre Fontane[/i] (Three Fountains).

The date St. Peter came to Rome cannot be established with certainty, but it is certain that he founded the Church of Rome and was its bishop. The First Epistle of Peter was written from Rome. St. Peter's tomb is directly under the high altar where succeeding Popes have celebrated the Holy Mass in St. Peter's Baslica, which is built over the first Basilica of St. Peter erected by Constantine, which was built over the necropolis (graveyard, cemetery) where St. Peter was originally buried on Vatican Hill.

Both Sts. Peter and Paul died at the order of Nero. Some scholars believe they were killed on the same day -- June 29, A.D. 67, though some hold that Peter died in A.D. 64. St. Peter was crucified upside down at his own request, believing he was not worthy to die in the same manner as the Savior.

St. Peter was the Pope, i.e., the Papa (Father) of the Universal Chruch and the Bishop of
Rome. Paul was a traveling evangelist. Paul wasn't available to succeed St. Peter, even if he had wanted the job. All succeeding Popes have been the bishop of Rome.

References:
Understanding the New Testament, Howard Clark Kee (a Methodist scholar)
Peter and Paul, Apostles, An Account of the Early Years of the Church, Isidore O'Brien, OFM
My own visits to the tomb of St. Peter (thanks be to God)

[Katholikos]

reyb,

The Trinity was defined at the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D (also spelled Nicaea). The Pope at the time was Sylvester I. The Creed that was developed and signed by the Catholic bishops at Nicea to express belief in the Trinity was again considered and improved upon at the Council of Constantinople in 381. Thus it is named the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, or it's called the Nicene Creed for short.

Catholics recite the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed every Sunday at every Mass (called the Divine Liturgy in the Eastern Catholic Churches).

The Church always solves its problems and settles major questions through a meeting of bishops in council. The first was the Council of Jerusalem. James was the Bishop of Jerusalem, but Peter presided over the council. You can read about it in Acts 15.

Likos

[jckinsman]

[quote name='reyb' post='1296049' date='Jun 15 2007, 01:57 PM'][indent]Please do not doubt my intention. I am just doing this for sake of truth No more No less.[/indent][/quote]
Is this not how we all learn? It is all good if your intentions are good,Right? JC

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='reyb' post='1296051' date='Jun 15 2007, 12:03 PM'][indent]Because as far as I know, according to what I learn here. Roman Catholic Church was the Church of Christ, entrust by Jesus to Peter. How about those churches mentioned by Paul in his letters?[/indent][/quote]

That's right, Peter wasn't a Patriarch of the Roman Church, just as St. Mark wasn't, among others because that wasn't the rites that they belonged to... St. Mark was the Patriarch of the Egyptian Rite [Coptic], so why would he be patriarch of Rome? That wouldn't make sense.


[quote name='Kirisutodo333' post='1296073' date='Jun 15 2007, 12:25 PM']In the Council of Constantinople, the Trinity was given its formal recognition as one God in three persons of the same substance (homousios). All three are one, all three fully divine. This was in 381 A.D. At this time the bishop of Rome was St. Damascus I.[/quote]

Except that at the Council of Constantinople, Pope Damascus I wasn't even present and neither were any of his biships. The Council wrote in it's documents that it was affirmed by the Holy Spirit, not a man.

Reza

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='Katholikos' post='1296351' date='Jun 15 2007, 08:44 PM']reyb,

The Trinity was defined at the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D (also spelled Nicaea). The Pope at the time was Sylvester I. The Creed that was developed and signed by the Catholic bishops at Nicea to express belief in the Trinity was again considered and improved upon at the Council of Constantinople in 381. Thus it is named the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, or it's called the Nicene Creed for short.

Catholics recite the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed every Sunday at every Mass (called the Divine Liturgy in the Eastern Catholic Churches).

The Church always solves its problems and settles major questions through a meeting of bishops in council. The first was the Council of Jerusalem. James was the Bishop of Jerusalem, but Peter presided over the council. You can read about it in Acts 15.

Likos[/quote]

No it wasn't affirmed at the Council of Nicea, it was the Council of Constantinople that affirmed the specifics of the Holy Spirit. To quote everyone's favorite source Wikipedia [which I have other sources that also affirm this]

[quote]Up until about 360, theological debates mainly dealt with the Divinity of Jesus, the 2nd person of the Trinity. However, because the Council of Nicaea had not clarified the divinity of the Holy Spirit, the 3rd person of the Trinity, it became a topic of debate. The Macedonians denied the divinity of the Holy Spirit. This was also known as Pneumatomachianism.[/quote]

Reza

[reyb]

[quote name='jckinsman' post='1296433' date='Jun 16 2007, 01:22 AM']Is this not how we all learn? It is all good if your intentions are good,Right? JC[/quote]
[indent]Yes[/indent]

[reyb]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1296479' date='Jun 16 2007, 04:36 AM']That's right, Peter wasn't a Patriarch of the Roman Church, just as St. Mark wasn't, among others because that wasn't the rites that they belonged to... St. Mark was the Patriarch of the Egyptian Rite [Coptic], so why would he be patriarch of Rome? That wouldn't make sense.
Except that at the Council of Constantinople, Pope Damascus I wasn't even present and neither were any of his biships. The Council wrote in it's documents that it was affirmed by the Holy Spirit, not a man.

Reza[/quote]

[indent]Are you a member of Orthodox Church - Sister Church of Roman Catholic? (According to Katholikos)[/indent]
[indent]Thank you for info. I will try to look at it.[/indent]

[reyb]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1296479' date='Jun 16 2007, 04:36 AM']Reza[/quote]
[indent]Do you have in your church a declaration of faith like in Roman Catholic Church?[/indent]

[reyb]

[indent]Reza, I mean - like a catechism in Catholic Church[/indent]

[RezaMikhaeil]

[quote name='reyb' post='1296489' date='Jun 16 2007, 04:03 AM'][indent]Are you a member of Orthodox Church - Sister Church of Roman Catholic? (According to Katholikos)[/indent]
[indent]Thank you for info. I will try to look at it.[/indent][/quote]

Yes I'm Coptic Orthodox.


[quote name='reyb' post='1296494' date='Jun 16 2007, 04:52 AM'][indent]Do you have in your church a declaration of faith like in Roman Catholic Church?[/indent][/quote]


[quote name='reyb' post='1296495' date='Jun 16 2007, 04:55 AM'][indent]Reza, I mean - like a catechism in Catholic Church[/indent][/quote]

Sure, how else would people know what we believe? The difference is this Rev, Roman Catholics have the Catechism, in which is "updated", if you will from time to time [as ever Catechism is different], Orthodox don't nessessarily have anything like that, we just stick to the old traditions.

Reza

[reyb]

[quote name='RezaLemmyng' post='1296497' date='Jun 16 2007, 07:13 AM']Yes I'm Coptic Orthodox.
Sure, how else would people know what we believe? The difference is this Rev, Roman Catholics have the Catechism, in which is "updated", if you will from time to time [as ever Catechism is different], Orthodox don't nessessarily have anything like that, we just stick to the old traditions.

Reza[/quote]
Where can I get it?