Would You Crawl Up These Stairs On Your Knees

[Socrates]

[quote]"I never, in my life, saw anything at once so ridiculous and so unpleasant as this sight."[/quote]
Obviously, Charles Dickens had not lived to witness Budge's anti-Catholic posting on Phatmass.

[Thy Geekdom Come]

What a lovely devotion to the Passion of Our Lord, who had to fall on His holy knees so many times to save us.

Budge, these devotions are not done to earn salvation; they are done to share in Our Lord's work of justification by looking for opportunities to suffer what He suffered, realizing that we deserve no better, and accepting what we deserve with humility so that we will be that much more open to falling before Him in praise for the gift of His salvation.

God bless,

Micah

[Lil Red]

i see no debate here, except for Budge trying to stir up trouble, again.

Budge please see the link i posted for you. [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=67979"]Here it is again.[/url]

[jeffpugh]

[quote name='Socrates' post='1296974' date='Jun 16 2007, 09:45 PM']Obviously, Charles Dickens had not lived to witness Budge's anti-Catholic posting on Phatmass. [/quote]

Indeed. Don't think he'd care for her writing style.


[Edit: Nor mine for that matter]

Edited June 17, 2007 by Sacred Music Man

[Veritas]

+

I've done it several times. It is an amazing experience.

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1296605' date='Jun 16 2007, 11:39 AM']What does it matter to you?

Your statement here reminds me of Judas' criticism of the woman who washed Jesus' feet with her hair.[/quote]
Unpleasant doesn't necessarily mean bad. The Paschal road journeyed by Christ was not pleasant, I'm sure, but it was still journeyed. Making a confession during the sacrament of penance is not always pleasant, but good is gained from it. I agree, ascending steps on your knees in unpleasant, but still potentially beneficial.

[cmotherofpirl]

Been there done that, what is your point????

Anybody can say a few words and think they are saved Budge, actions speak louder than words.

[1337 k4th0l1x0r]

Having just run tonight, it doesn't sound pleasant.

So I'd do it. Everytime I get annoyed with kneeling at church, I remember Jesus went through far worse for me.

[franciscanheart]

I climbed the stairs at St. Joseph's Oratory in Canada (on my knees of course). It was an awesome experience. I would definitely do it again!

[quote name='xTrishaxLynnx' post='1296958' date='Jun 16 2007, 07:26 PM']I did something like that in Canada. It was awesome.[/quote]
Wasn't it?

[Laudate_Dominum]

I ascended those holy stairs in Rome a few years ago and it was an extremely grace-filled experience I must say.

Why are we supposed to care about the opinion of Charles Dickens anyway? Martin Luther made fun of the holy stairs too as I recall. Are we supposed to be embarrassed or ashamed? Is that the tactic here? I remember reading some place where Richard Dawkins explained that the core tactic of his camp (the popular anti-Christian "science" writers) is to present religious belief in as absurd a light as possible so that on the one hand believers will feel inferior and ashamed, while on the other hand non-believers can feel superior and justified in overtly mocking and suppressing religion and religious persons (I'm certainly paraphrasing).
It would seem that the goal is to provoke anti-religious sentiment in our culture to such an extent that the rejection of religion will be a prerequisite to any sort of respectability or credibility in society.

I'm not reading that level of intention into your actions here; it is perhaps more likely that you're just poking fun for fun's sake. I just think it is interesting how often mockery is employed as a central strategy in turning people away from their religious beliefs.

[Birgitta Noel]

While I don't reject this idea in any way I have to say that the picture of all of those people doing this at once does not make it something that I would do. For me with that many people I would not be able to focus on what I was doing.

I have the same problem in adoration. Too many people = distraction and inability to have quiet time.

Edit to add: I do go to adoration, I just prefer to go somewhere where it's a big church and I can sit alone.

Edited June 17, 2007 by The Little Way

[Sojourner]

[quote name='VaticanIILiturgist' post='1297026' date='Jun 16 2007, 08:44 PM']Unpleasant doesn't necessarily mean bad. The Paschal road journeyed by Christ was not pleasant, I'm sure, but it was still journeyed. Making a confession during the sacrament of penance is not always pleasant, but good is gained from it. I agree, ascending steps on your knees in unpleasant, but still potentially beneficial.[/quote]
Was this directed at me?

[jiyoung]

I have, and it was beautiful. It was a wonderful meditation.

[bonoducchi]

[quote name='Terra Firma' post='1297129' date='Jun 17 2007, 12:28 AM']Was this directed at me?[/quote]
Not at you....just at the notion of unpleasantness.

[KnightofChrist]

Yes I would crawl up the stairs which Christ crawled also!

[gurlie4godsd]

[quote name='Didymus' post='1296658' date='Jun 16 2007, 10:40 AM']i did do it. and it was awesome. It's kinda a good retreat in Rome just to go there and slowly meditate on the Passion of Our Lord.[/quote]


I did it to...it was amazing and very powerful...I did it with my family and we stopped and prayed a hail mary for each step...it was beautiful.

[Budge]

I think this whole crawling up the stairs thing to "be" more holy comes out of human pride. You want to DO something that you believe will make you more pleasing to God and HOLY.

THe sad thing is all it really is show that shows lack of trust and relationship with God. I ask myself what kind of God would desire you bust your knees out for no good purpose? Lets say you had to kneel to do CPR and you had two bad knees and blew one out, at least that would have been good for a purpose.

I'm sorry but this display is not about true holiness but people who still think they must *appease* God via their own *suffering*.
[quote]
Budge, these devotions are not done to earn salvation; they are done to share in [b]Our Lord's work of justification by looking for opportunities to suffer what He suffered, [/b]realizing that we deserve no better, and accepting what we deserve with humility so that we will be that much more open to falling before Him in praise for the gift of His salvation.[/quote]

So Michah, does that mean that those men in the Phillipines who get themselves crucified are right?

Its based in pride, seeking to *appease* God and force His hand and not in truth. Many of you are young, [u]life WILL bring you suffering, count on it! You do not have to go looking for it.[/u] If this Catholic stuff was true, JOb would have knocked down his own house and took medicine to give HIMSELF boils.

[quote]Been there done that, what is your point????

Anybody can say a few words and think they are saved Budge, actions speak louder than words.[/quote]

I am supposing that many of you are of upper socioeconomic means, most normal working class Americans can not afford the plane ticket to Rome, to crawl up the stairs at the Vatican. Now how much good was served others, by you spending money to crawl up some stairs, rather then serve others?

This is where some of the pretense of *holiness* comes in. Expensive World travel coupled with prideful religious activities.

Charles Dickens, wrote about the poor quite often, Ive read most of his books, and have loved them. I suppose he too saw the pretense in this religious ritual given that he had a heart for the poor.

[Norseman82]

Well, if someone wants to do it as a private devotion, that is their business. This is not something [i]required[/i] to increase holiness; there are other ways of doing it, and no one should be made to feel guilty for not doing this private devotion.

[quote name='Budge' post='1297392' date='Jun 17 2007, 05:12 PM']Many of you are young, [u]life WILL bring you suffering, count on it! You do not have to go looking for it.[/u][/quote]

I don't agree with Budge much, but this point this is one of those twice a day moments where the stopped clock is right.

Edited June 17, 2007 by Norseman82

[Budge]

[quote]Many of you are young, life WILL bring you suffering, count on it! You do not have to go looking for it.


I don't agree with Budge much, but this point this is one of those twice a day moments where the stopped clock is right.[/quote]

Wow you agree...

[Norseman82]

[quote name='Budge' post='1297413' date='Jun 17 2007, 05:35 PM']Wow you agree...

[/quote]

Don't get your hopes up too much....there are those other 1338 minutes of the day we need you to work on! :